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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Hy-Tran Revisited (long)

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Jim Allen

08-19-2005 03:51:06




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After all the great posts in answer to my question about Hy-Tran, Iíve done some looking around, been to two dealers and come to some conclusions. You guys need to read this post carefully before commenting. My goal here was to find out if there was anything special about Hy-Tran that warranted the higher price.

1) When you go to a dealer to buy bulk hydraulic/transmission fluid, donít necessarily expect it to be "official" Case/IH Hy-Tran. Of the two dealers nearest me, one used a Citgo product (either Transgard or maybe Mystik JT-5) and the other Shell Donax. They did offer Case/IH Hy-Tran in 5-gallon buckets at the parts counter, but in the shop, it was the bulk stuff. The bulk was about $5.80/gal, the Hy-Tran $8.00/gal in the bucket. One dealer parts guy freely admitted the bulk fluid was not Hy-Tran, and while the other parts guy was a little cagey, one of the wrenches out back had no problem telling me. Both outfits claimed the other fluids were perfectly compatible with the old International Hy-Tran B-6 specifications, while meeting the newer Case/IH standards (Hy-Tran Plus).

2) There is a universal industry specification for Hydraulic/Trans fluid that is compatible with the old B-6 specification, which appears to be nothing special in this day and age. Maybe it once was. All the oil out there for which I could get Product Specification Sheets claimed to be compatible with, or to meet or exceeded this standard. The industry standard tests include oxidation resistance, rust protection, water sensitivity, clutch and brake chatter performance tests, etc. Even the lower priced fluid, such as the Wal Mart Super Tech and TSC Traveller we discussed in the previous posts meet these specs.

3) I did find some "No-Name" fluid out there in a local Farm/Ranch store that just says "Hydraulic/Transmission Fluid" and not much else on the label. It did not claim to meet any manufacturerís spec. Iíd be leery of this stuff and you could find stuff like that elsewhere.

4) I collected, and am still collecting, Product Information Sheets on Hydraulic/Trans Fluid. I canít go into all of it in detail because of space limits here, but these specs were very much the same on all the fluids. Some had a little more of this or that, but nothing that really jumped out as super. Well, except the Amsoil product. It appears to be great stuff, but it ainít cheap at $18.70/gallon. This stuff WAY exceeds all specs and performance tests.

5) FYI, I got Data sheets on the following oils I in no particular order), Case/IH Hy-Tran, John Deere Hy-Gard, Universal Torque Fluid (Texas Refinery), Superfilm Universal Tractor Fluid (Amrep), Hydraul (Esso), Synthetic Tractor Hydrulic/Trans oil (Amsoil), Champion #4000, Ultratorque ( Horizon Lubricants), HG Fluid (Phillips 66) Valvoline Premium Universal Tractor Fluid, Castrol UTF, Transgard (Citgo), Donax (Shell), 75 Fluid, Mystic JT-5, Mobilfluid 424 (Mobil).

6) I THINK, I have a Data Sheet for the TSC Traveller (manufactured under contract to TSC, I will confirm), but I havenít been able to get one for the Wal-Mart Super Tech, though I can get sheets for their motor oils and 90wt gear oils (which show and test well).

7) I found some independent oil tests on two hydraulic oil products, one of which was the John Deere Hy-Gard and it tested very well.

8) CONCLUSION. Though the jury is not fully in on some of the oils, it appears there is nothing super special about Hy-Tran that cannot be met by a brand name, universal hydraulic/trans oil that lists itself as a functional equivalent for, or "meets and exceeds" the Hy-Tran Spec. The Mystik JT-5 even claims to be patterned after Hy-Tran on its Data sheet. Because the Wal Mart and TSC oil is so attractively priced, I will focus more research on these oils to determine if they fit in with the brand name oils and meet a reasonable quality standard.

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Cliff Neubauer

08-19-2005 16:27:27




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 08-19-2005 03:51:06  
One of the main differences between Hy-tran and the other brands is Hy-tran is designed to absorb up to 1% of it's volume in water where the other brands stay seperated from water. On older tractors that may not make a big difference but on newer tractors with clutch packs it can make a huge difference. We use CIH oil in all of our tractors but our dealer has a bulk oil program and they are priced as low if not lower than most of the "cheap" brands.

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Jay (ND)

08-19-2005 20:52:32




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 08-19-2005 16:27:27  
I don't regard that as an advantage - the water is still there, it isn't absorbed. What does happen is that it is mixed well enough to be demulsified, but it's still there, it's just not evident that it's there. At least in other oils where it isn't blended in, you know you have a problem.



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Jim Allen

08-19-2005 15:42:51




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 08-19-2005 03:51:06  
Some of y'all ain't gettin' it here. I want to quantify the differences. WHY is one oil better than another. WHY is another oil worse. Sure, you can throw money at something. I just want to know that what I'm throwing is doing me an equal amount of good. So far, nobody is offering anything concrete, just a rehash of the sales pitch from the advertisement. Is it cost-effective to put the top dollar oil of today into a 35 year old machine that was designed for a lower spec oil anyway. Will a $500 tractor that's 2/3s used up benefit in some way? Maybe. Maybe not. If the answer is yes, I'll do it, no problemo. It the cheaper oil is the equal to what the tractor was designed for 35 years ago, that's where I'll go. It's a quest for knowledge and all you guys will learn what I learn. And keep chiming in!

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Jay (ND)

08-19-2005 16:36:16




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 08-19-2005 15:42:51  
Most of your cheaper oils will not have anti-foaming additives or anti-chatter additives. Both very important.



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T_Bone

08-19-2005 18:33:02




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Jay (ND), 08-19-2005 16:36:16  
Hi Jim,

Your seeking an answer that will be very difficult to come by.

I look at this way, if the tractor had no problems in 6000hrs for 40yrs using Hy-Tran, Hy-Tran must be worth the extra cost just looking at it's track record.

Ya maybe a cheaper oil may have lasted close to the same time, been $500 cheaper over 40yrs too replace but will it keep lubing like Hy-Tran for another 40yrs? I'll never know as I'll be dead and so will you.

It's not like my motor oil post where I noticed something wrong right off the bat and something needed to be changed.

T_Bone

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PAULIH300

08-19-2005 10:29:45




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 08-19-2005 03:51:06  
Amalie Ultra ALL TRAC,and Parts Plus Tractor/Hydraulic(made by Amalie) also meets Hy-Tran Specs.The Ultra meets Kubotas latest specs too.



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genep

08-19-2005 08:31:16




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 08-19-2005 03:51:06  
Jim, thanks for taking the time to fill us in on your findings. I, too, will be watching to see the results on the WalMart oil



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Bronson

08-19-2005 07:23:42




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 08-19-2005 03:51:06  

Very interesting post, Thanks.
I will be watching for your follow up on your statement below.
B.J.

____________________
Because the Wal Mart and TSC oil is so attractively priced, I will focus more research on these oils to determine if they fit in with the brand name oils and meet a reasonable quality standard.



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Super A

08-19-2005 08:22:29




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Bronson, 08-19-2005 07:23:42  
Agree, you have done your homework! Very interesting to see how the various products compare.

However, I think the easiest thing would just be to use the Hy-Tran and forget about it.

Al



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Jim Allen

08-19-2005 09:34:05




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Super A, 08-19-2005 08:22:29  
Well, there's the dollar issue Al. You have two oils, both of which can do the job equally well. One is $5 a gallon and the other is $8. You have to change 22 gallons. That's $66 bucks doing down the tubes for no reason. I don't mind spending money, or more money, for a product, but it has to be proven that it does the job significantly better. It's a value thing, dollar versus performance. The jury is still out, but there are good deals to be had out there. I'm just trying to find a couple of them for us Red Tractor guys.

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IanC

08-19-2005 10:31:22




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to Jim Allen, 08-19-2005 09:34:05  
All oil specs are a RANGE, the "cheap" oils do "meet or exceed" the lower end of the range. The difference is in HOW LONG the oil will stay in range. Hy-Tran (manufactured by Viscosity Oil, now a subsidiary of Fiat, who also make other OEM branded oils as well)and other OEM oils are formulated to stay in range for the entire change interval, not just for the first few hours after you pour it into your tractor. If you figure in you investment of time and parts is it really worth it to save $5?

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T_Bone

08-19-2005 12:19:33




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to IanC, 08-19-2005 10:31:22  
Hi Jim,

I ran Pennzoil in my engines for the 25yrs and never gave it much thought as that's what my parents used. I then noticed that my engines were using oil all of a sudden from the last change. I then switched over too Quakerstate and the oil usage stopped. 1qt in 500miles with Pennzoil, 1qt in 1000miles with Quakerstate. This for the Dodge as it used 1qt/1000miles since new.

I used Quakerstate for the next ten years without any usage problems. Then on my last oil change before buying my F350, I noticed I was once again using 1qt/500miles.

In the mean time I bought a 2000 Chevy car. Used Quakestate on the first change and noticed my oil was really black and smelled of gas. 3rd change was the same. First change with factory oil was dark amber with no gas smell. I think I have a problem.

Well I bought the F350 PSD and decided Chevron Delo is what I would use as it was highly rated for diesel use.

So I thought I'd try Chevron Surpreme in the Chevy. First change was dark but no gas smell. Second change was dark amber and no gas smell just like the factory oil. I also noticed I picked up 2mpg on the first two tanks and 4mpg from then on.

Fluke on the increase of fuel mileage? Told my son about it and he tried CS in his Ranger. He got 2mpg increase the first change.

I thought this might put a spin on your thoughts if different oils can make a difference although there all rated to do the job. I myself didn't think oil brand was all that important until my experience with Chevron Surpreme oil.

T_Bone

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PAULIH300

08-19-2005 14:15:54




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to T_Bone, 08-19-2005 12:19:33  
Was anything else changed besides the oil? Fuel economy is a hard thing to gauge exactly,there are too many variables...sometimes its even the placebo effect...(Tornado,Slick 50,Split Fire)...where if its thought to give better performance,it will!



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T_Bone

08-19-2005 18:18:51




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to PAULIH300, 08-19-2005 14:15:54  
Hi Paul,

No nothing else was changed. I'm a avid fuel mileage nut, always have been as that one thing I can "help" control my costs. I've always spent the break in period on new vehicles testing for best fuel mileage for that vehicle thus changing my driving style to match that vehicle. For 36k miles we haven't varried much, 1 to 2mpg depending how much we use AC, so were very consistant in our driving habbits.

I disagree that fuel economy is hard to gauge. I just finished a excel spread sheet where I track, single,3,5 and 10 tank averages, trip mileage and life time fuel mileage. Tank averaging is alot closer to true fuel mileage over time.

Back in March or so when everyone was talking about adding acetone to fuel to increase mileage by 20%, sure I tried it as it cost very little to see the results. Results, no increase in fuel mileage, in fact a little loss.

T_Bone

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Jay (ND)

08-19-2005 11:47:42




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 Re: Hy-Tran Revisited (long) in reply to IanC, 08-19-2005 10:31:22  
Viscosity oil is not a manufacturer. It is an office with a few employees that call around and bid out the oil. If you don't believe me, call them and ask. I did last year.



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