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IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown

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MagMan

03-25-2005 05:36:54




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Hi Guys Sitting here nursing my Mouth after having teeth pulled And I am On a good run Here of trying to quit Smoking today is day Three And counting. Anyways I was just posting on the white IH subject and was wondering why so much of the I dont know for sures here???? Come on old fellas love to talk about the good ol days usally. I know my parents were born in the 30s so my mom is 70 this year. Dad died a long time ago but that would seem to put them in there prime in the late 40s and 50s so why is there not people out there that worked at these IH factorys that can say for sure if these certain tractors were built or not. Why do the people rely on the Historic wisconsin or whatever it is sociity. Where are the people that worked at these plants??? Did they all die of Cancer or something? Was this like area 51 or something?? Did They make tractors underground and pop one in the line up at 3:00 AM when nobody was looking.Whats up with this? They really cant find three people that worked at one of these plants that could say I worked on making the last SH and I made the first 300 and no there was not a SHTA in between. Come on now! I can see that you could get a few ol fellas that would speak on rumors but is there not still people living among us That can say for sure That they actually worked on one of these Or Painted the white tractors at the louisville plant? The old dude on NBC in the morning is always talking about the Smuckers over 100 club. Maybe we should ask him to interview all the folks to see if anyone worked at International Harvestor factory. LOL And also this is nothing against Guy Fay and the rest of the folks that have spent Many,Many years researching this stuff I love these Books and all your hard work. I would just Love to see more out of the horses mouth. MR ED did it back in those times. Ok I will quit rambling now Have a good easter People MagMan

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dr.sportster

03-25-2005 09:16:43




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 Re: IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown in reply to MagMan, 03-25-2005 05:36:54  
I think alot of the problem occurs when people who worked at a factory are not really interested in todays hobbies related to their old workplace.You would have to go to the area where the factory workers were.Problem with that is as neighborhoods deteriorated people retired and/or moved away.



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Glenn F.

03-25-2005 06:59:55




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 Re: IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown in reply to MagMan, 03-25-2005 05:36:54  
Congratulations on the non-smoking. If you slip and fall, get up again. It's WELL worth the struggle. Glenn



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MagMan

03-25-2005 08:12:12




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 Re: IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown in reply to Glenn F., 03-25-2005 06:59:55  
Thanks Glen I think this is the 4th time in about 30 years they say the first times are just practice. I did not mean to start a subject war like the SHTA has in the past on this post just trying to keep my fingers busy.Its good to get incouragment some where I sure dont get any here. MagMan



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CNKS

03-25-2005 06:52:48




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 Re: IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown in reply to MagMan, 03-25-2005 05:36:54  
Red Dave was not referring to the RPM web site, but to Red Power Magazine itself -- you should subscribe. The only way you are going to learn is to read, then read some more, and ask questions. You have to sort through the answers and look for a consensus. The white tractor thing is well documented. The Wisconsin Historical Society has the old correct IH records. Although the link below says paint decisions (I don't think the white tractors are mentioned) there are numerous other items of interest in it. There are a few people that actually worked at the IH plants that post on this board, they worked in the 70's and 80's though (that's recent history to me). There are always things that will never be known, but if you keep plugging along you will eventually learn most of it. There is no one source, you have to use multiple sources.

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Red Dave

03-25-2005 06:05:08




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 Re: IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown in reply to MagMan, 03-25-2005 05:36:54  
MagMan, you must not read Red Power Magazine. These subjects have been documented and disected numerous times over the past few years. Articles by authoritative researchers such as Guy Fay, Ken Updike, Jim Becker and others that have layed out the facts for all to see. There have been articles by and about former IH employees too. There is no controversy, only a few people who, for reasons unknown to me, won't accept reality.

There are also folks who believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and UFO's too. Can't explain that either.

Now I gotta go help the Easter bunny deliver some chocolate eggs ;^)

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MagMan

03-25-2005 06:40:42




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 Re: IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown in reply to Red Dave, 03-25-2005 06:05:08  
Nope went to red power once and decided that It was something that was not really what I was looking for.And the time that I have for this kind of stuff I would rather spend here at YT and ocasional the Farmall cub site. Nothing against them over there just not my cup of tea I guess. I understand what your saying but while I was thumbing through Guy Fays book here he talks about Rumors these are the things that I would like to hear from people, I guess even in the past there has always been rumors about different things ,Different People and things that happened in history books that people cant answer either. So I dont know why I think this should be different. Maybe its the unknown that intrigues me or us so much that keeps life interesting.

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Guy Fay

03-25-2005 13:25:38




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 Re: IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown in reply to MagMan, 03-25-2005 06:40:42  
It's a good question to raise. I wish folks were finding and talking to older and retired employees. But you ave to be careful in what you believe. Here's with the white Farmalls from 1950.

One, these tractors were built 55 years ago. If you had a guy that was fairly young (25) that worked at Louisville, he'd now be 80.

That being said, a lot of the guys at Louisville who worked on the line did just that. They worked there, stuck parts on, didn't really care about that many years down the road, there'd be collectors that cared.

One problem that I've especially hit is that even in the engineering ranks, folks worked on their projects, didn't really know that much about what else went on.

There's actually retirees who do talk about stuff that happened from the early 1960s on- Bill BOrghoff wrote a good article in Red Power a couple years ago, the guy that did Cub Cadet development and some of the transmission on the 706/806 talked to me some, and others (Hank WIll did some articles based on his knowledge. Pre-1963, there are a few IH guys still left from engineering, not many. And memory is a frail thing.

That being said, there's some awfully good records of the thngs that IH did in the Wisconsin Historical Society that date back to the McCormick Family in the 1700s on up. They're not perfect, some stuff from IH is still retained by the various companies, some stuff got lost over the years, but you don't have to rely on human memory. No human is going ot remember the first tractor off the assembly line in a particular month in 1950- the records are just fine. There's great stuff about tractor development from 1906 through 1940. There's something like 70 different IH publications and records that IH produced for the 1950 demonstrator program. There's 5000 cubic feet of material- no build cards or shipping records yet, but how about Mogul and Titan blueprints?

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MagMan

03-25-2005 14:30:20




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 Re: IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown in reply to Guy Fay, 03-25-2005 13:25:38  
Does that mean that theres stuff that has not been gone through yet? I guess being there reading through some of that guinine farmall records is probly as good if not better than a real person. Just curious how many articals or pieces of paper work or people would you usally talk to before you would add that info to your books and or writings to know it was a fact? And not fictisious. JON

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Guy Fay

03-25-2005 15:50:42




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 Re: IH History Subject Why So Much Unknown in reply to MagMan, 03-25-2005 14:30:20  
What do you mean not gone through? The stuff is all indexed to at elast the box level. There's still tons of articles and books.

As far as what makes it into the books, I relied on IH records and original in the period IH photographs. I am careful to know who within IH generated the record- if it came from the advertising department, it was trusted less than it came from the engineering department.

On the originality guides, a lot of the information came from IH engineering records held by Case Corporation, who still supply parts for tractors going back into the 1930s. Engineering Drawings, product change notices, and bills of materials.

I would have liked to have looked at original IH tractors, but truly original tractors are very few and far between.

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