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When is enough enough?

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Animal

03-10-2005 16:20:14

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I am in the process of restoring a 39 F20 for a friend of mine. The tractor belonged to his father and it has deep centimental value. It is a real dog and as a rule I do not have a problem with that as I like to go completely through a tractor when I do one. It has taken heat to get this old girl apart and I will grant you its in rough shape, but the price of these parts is absolutely staggering! I am no stranger to high prices as I have been through some John Deeres also. I love this old iron,but at what point do they price us out of this hobby? I have been reading the post about the auctions,you just can not pay that price for a common tractor that is stuck and justify rebuilding it, not when you can go through the classifieds in Red Power and see what nice tractors are bringing. My question is this who is jamming us on these old tractor prices? Is it the vultures who strip them out and try to triple their money on used parts or is it the big auctions that sell large quanities at a time. As you can probably tell I have had a rough time on the phone today trying to locate parts worth the money, and to top it off they delivered farm fuel today,and that is a whole different story, sorry I just had to vent.

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Al L. in Wisc.

03-11-2005 17:13:50

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

Yes, sometimes parts prices can be high. I find it fun to search though and have bought from ebay and other sources. What is a person to do if you want/need good parts for a restoration or just to make thinks work. Me, I buy. I want it done right, so I pay the price. I look at it this way, no drugs, no bad habits, well....tractors to the fifth power, but...I could be spending it on worse things. Like beer, which I am not opposed to...reminds me of a line from All in the Family - Archie Bunker said "...you can never buy beer, you only rent it." Looking for more parts.

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riverbend

03-11-2005 16:29:34

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

Traditionally, you tighten it until it breaks and back it off 1/4 turn.

Enough is when you decide to give up. I think that you are working on a 65 year old piece of equipment. The parts have not been made for a long time. Imagine working on a 1939 car or motorcycle...

FYI, brake rotors for a 25 year old Honda are $330 each. They used the same rotor on a lot of bikes for quite a few years. The seal of an early water pump is $65.

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MIKE IN SHENADOAH VALLEY

03-11-2005 08:51:01

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

IF YOU ASK ME ITS THE FORMER CAR COLLECTORS THAT RUINED THEIR HOBBY WITH HIGH PRICES AND JUDGING THAT JUMPED SHIP AND ARE NOW TRYING TO RUIN OUR HOBBY WITH THEIR BIG MONEY AND JUDGING IDEAS.
RICH PEOPLE HAVE RUINED EVERY POOR MAN'S SPORT

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Sloroll

03-11-2005 10:26:29

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to MIKE IN SHENADOAH VALLEY, 03-11-2005 08:51:01

Please stand by while I get my secretary to type an appropriate response. I must jet off to Germany to buy up axle nut throw out clutches before anyone else gets them.

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Tailhunter

03-11-2005 07:26:26

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

The restoration of old tractors has become a rich man's sport. The ones that have the money don't care what things cost. They want what they want and they can pay the price. If you really want to sling some big tears, go to an IH dealer and buy something....I was going to replace the bearing on the steering shaft of my H...76 bucks...26 for a float in the carb...seals for the rear axle 18 bucks a pop...The gasket for the trans cover plate...22.00. I now have about 3,000 dollars in her and she's not been painted yet. I'm talking all the work done by me...except the head work (machine shop). New radiator (hoses and clamps), complete engine rebuild, carb rebuild, new clutch, P/plate and bearings, all new seals and gaskets through out, converted to 12 volt, and there is a bunch more that I can't seem to remember right now. I'm rebuilding the lift-all as we speak and my wife thinks I'm crazy...heck I think I'm crazy!
As long as there is money involved...the ones that have it call the shots...just a fact of life.
If you don't think this to be true...you think rich people care if gas is 5 bucks a gallon...trust me they will still drive where ever they want....the working stiff won't even be able to get to work....but enough about that....Hey Honey I need $500, I want to put new tires on my tractor...no wait make that $800 I want new rims too.... here we go again!

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JRM

03-11-2005 07:21:05

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

I know where your coming from. For me the price isn"t to high until my wife finds out what I"ve spent. I look at the money spent on this hobby as much cheaper than therapy, my wife likes it because it keeps me out of her hair, so it"s cheaper than a divorce, and with 3 daughters, my shop and tractors keep me out of the nut house. So, I guess I"m still money ahead....hmmm maybe I can"t afford not to keep these old tractors.

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gauger

03-11-2005 05:47:58

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

I spend about $4000 on each letter series I restore but it's my passion. I hate to think what I'd spend if I was into golf at the same intensity level.

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Opa A

03-10-2005 21:04:12

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

Actually I've just about bought everything I need for my A (can't speak for F20's) and I thought everything was quite reasonable. The prices places like OEM, Steel Wheel Ranch, or here at YT, are charging are more than fair. I got crankshaft, and complete overhaul kit for the engine for $570, I'd have to spend about the same for a small block chevy. What are the production runs for these old tractor parts as compared to the SBC. As for used parts I was suprised at what I could get for limited dollars. Mostly with one call to Mike at Steel Wheel Ranch. Great guy to deal with. I guess you decide when enough is enough. I could have done with less on this restoration and I would probably be the only one to know the difference, but I want it the way I want it. Nuf. Garett

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Dixieland

03-10-2005 18:31:59

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

Well sir I know what you mean but I ain"t sure when enough is enough. I thought it would be after the last part I needed but one thing leads to another. I keep thinking I will get to an end to this money pit but so far it is gettin deeper. If I am gonna do it though, I gotta have the parts and sometimes I have to buy a part more than once because some folks are gonna rip you off by misrepresenting an item or downright dis-honest! The prices I pay are mostly set by the demand but sometimes there are some pretty good deals. The only wisdom I have to offer is to enjoy the prospect of a very good restoration. Good luck & hang in there.

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Sloroll

03-10-2005 18:23:05

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

Whoe big feller. I buy my fuel tanker at a time and I'm telling you according to my scources you are lucky you got it today at the price you did. Wait a month until feild time rolls and you will have something to complain about. Everyone is in that boat and I can understand the hostilities. Fuel is a necessity of life. You know I never heard of one fatality due to the restoration of an old tractor. No one ever froze to death or starved because of. If they did, it was out of foolishness rather than having to have something for an F-20. Get serious. If you can't afford a trip to Hawaii don't go. If you can't aford an F-20 put it up until you can. I am a terribly sentimental person and I would rather have Grandpas Regular than a shiney new Caddilac. It is a matter of your priorities not a dealers price. I have dealt with many people including the Cowman here and goodness me I haven't seen a monitarily wealthy one in the bunch....but money isn't everything to everybody. I have seen very helpful people with a passion and great knowledge of what they do. It boils down to this. I want to thank all the parts dealers that have "helped" me. Most deal only with a handshake and have been burned many times more than they have overpriced or misrepresented what they sell. And off the soapbox I go.

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Nebraska Cowman

03-10-2005 17:28:40

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

Animal, I sell a lot of F20 parts and hope no one thinks they are being gouged. I sell a lot of items on eBay and start them at a dollar and let the buyer set the price. I don't know what this stuff is worth but I am learning. Things like unbroken kerosene manifolds are getting hard to find and if you want one you are going to have to shell out for it. But I know where you are coming from and I have quit restoring tractors and started buying them already done. I just bought 4 more F20s sunday and no, I did not buy them for me. I bought them because guys like you need parts to fix grandpas F20 or Regular. I like to think of it as a "service" business as i can find these tractors and they are not all rusted and stuck. Maybe some of them should be restored but the cold hard fact is they are worth more in pieces. I have been trying for nearly a year to move a nice 1939 F20 with foot brakes and it is still here. I tryed to sell a running F20 earlier this winter for $600 and no takers. Then one day a man needed a manifold so I busted it up. Sorry for my rant but that's the way it is.

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Allan in NE

03-10-2005 17:35:53

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 03-10-2005 17:28:40

I can vouch for Cowman.

Everything I've bought from him was started at $1.00 and the traffic set the final price.

If anyone is to blame for high prices on old tractor parts, it is us, the fellers buyin' the parts.

FWIW,

Allan

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Kelly C

03-10-2005 17:55:33

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Allan in NE, 03-10-2005 17:35:53

I agree it is not the sellers fault. it is supply and demand. Try to buy a trans cover for a H. I bet you can get one for $1 just to get it out of thier yard. The other stuff that wears out. goes for what it is worth also.

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Paul in Mich

03-10-2005 17:06:44

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

Animal, I have restored tractors, and I know what it is to invest more into a restoration than I"ll ever recover by selling the tractor when finished. That is just a fact of life. These "vultures" you refer to are in all actuality the sources we as restorers need and depend on to realize a restoration. While there are some sources for reproduction tractor parts, for the most part, they are limited, so the only way we are going to make our tractors whole again is to buy parts from those who are parting out their tractors. If you think they are getting three times what their tractor is worth by parting it out, then you might consider buying a whole tractor and parting it out yourself. These people whom you call "vultures" are the lifeline to our hobbies. It doesnt matter if its a 57 Chevy Bel-Air or a 1939 F-20, some other car or tractor of its kind had to be sacrificed to keep ours going. I have, and I"m certain others have as well, hunted, combed the bone yerds, gleaned the used parts tables at the swap meets and shows, made phone calls, bought several of the same item before we got one better than the item we are replacing, and otherwise searching the 4 corners for parts to complete our restoration. To consider it a "rough time" as you put it, is to make a hobby more work than a hobby. It would be far better to view it as an adventure and try to enjoy the process as well as the finished product. Lastly, If there was so much money in parting out tractors, then where are their mansions? The last time I looked, they were all eking out a living just like the rest of us.

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Nebraska Cowman

03-10-2005 17:32:01

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Paul in Mich, 03-10-2005 17:06:44

Thanks Paul. Mansion? I don't even have a "house" anymore. There is a big old steel desk in the middle or the living room with rusty tractor parts on it.

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Bud light

03-10-2005 16:59:43

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

Sounds like you looked into a engine rebuild kit for that ole F20. @ $900 from Rice equipment that is a bit much for a tractor that doesnt bring $1500 completely restored. Keep an eye out on Ebay for parts. I know alot of cheep skates complain that Ebay is highway robbery but compare the going prices there with that of the salvage yard. Parts usually go for pennies on the dollar compared to that of that of salvage yard prices. You wanna know who started the high parts price just give the salvage yard a call. Just remember that a tractor is worth more in parts than as a whole.

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LBH

03-10-2005 16:40:36

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-10-2005 16:20:14

I saw a David Brown 42 Hp or so go for almost $6000 at an auction last weekend. It was outrageous. I figured the tractor was worth 3200 or so at the most before I went. I was wrong. I saw a drill press sell for $180 dollars used and you can buy the same drill press at Lowe's NEW for $120.00 People didn't seem to care what they were spending.

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Dick Davis

03-11-2005 04:08:00

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to LBH, 03-10-2005 16:40:36

Too many buyers - some of you guys better quit!

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Animal

03-11-2005 09:44:34

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Dick Davis, 03-11-2005 04:08:00

Like I said guys I just needed to vent, I think I am back on an even keel today, but to set the record straight the vultures that I refer to are the hucksters that have never sat on a tractor let alone ever had a passion for one. In my neck of the woods I live close enough to a big city where their are get over artists that have discovered their is a lot of money in old iron and 10 acre horse farmers and they are dominating the farm sales that have old equipment. To give you an example I saw a 3 section spike tooth harrow bring $450 last week without an evener on it! You can imagine what the tractors went for it was scary, Oh well I have got to get back to rubby rubby painty painty you all have a great day.

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Paul in Mich

03-11-2005 11:59:49

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Re: When is enough enough? in reply to Animal, 03-11-2005 09:44:34

Animal, Isn"t it about time the government subsidized the antique tractor restoration industry? That way you can get the business out of the hands of greedy buyers and sellers. You know that a market economy even among hobbyists can only bring out the worst in everyone. Supply and demand should never apply to those of us who are victimized by inflated prices, wouldnt you think?

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