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I gotta see this!

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EricB

02-28-2005 04:49:12

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Friday I was phoning around looking for a live hydraulic pump for my 1942 W4. (Same as the H) After a half dozen referals I talked to a guy 75 miles north of Montreal. I explained I was looking for the pump that fits behind the distributor.He knew exactly what I wanted, then blew me away when he said "I have six of them. Were you looking for used or new? I have both!" NEW????
He explained his grandfather started selling farm equipment from that location 109 years ago in 1896. He handled McCormick and has been in business ever since. He laughed, "I got everything here!"

He recommended staying away form that style of pump since it was low pressure, white metal cast, and had a history of leaking oil into the distributor. I didn't know that! Any comment guys?

Our conversation was half english and half french but when the snow and ice clears I plan to make the 200 mile trip just to see this. I'll take a camera for sure!

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26Red

02-28-2005 10:16:57

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to EricB, 02-28-2005 04:49:12

You could also mount a pump off the front of the tractor- driven directly from the crank shaft- those pumps are sometimes cheaper and easier to find.

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Dave in CT

02-28-2005 10:02:07

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to EricB, 02-28-2005 04:49:12

Let us know what you find. I might be interested in a new one for my H.

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Ronald

02-28-2005 08:40:59

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to EricB, 02-28-2005 04:49:12

I bought a brand new one 7 or 8 years ago for an H. It was aluminum.

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Hugh MacKay

02-28-2005 07:25:29

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to EricB, 02-28-2005 04:49:12

Eric: I don't know as I would shy away from that white metal cast pump base on what he told you. Those early live hydraulic pumps on everything from Cub to M and W4 through W9 were all white cast metal, and they all mounted in the distributor drive. And yes of course when the pump was worn out usually the first notice was hydraulic oil leaking into crank case. But it never stopped us from using them. I'm not trying to tell you they were finest pump ever made or anything of the kind. IH did continue to use them until end of 130, 230, 350, 450 and 650 production in 1958.

I have a Super A and 130 both with original pumps. My Farmall 300 probably went 25,000 hours on 2 pumps. Key to running these pumps is never allow them to get low in oil, and if you feel they are running a bit hot don't be affraid to add additional resovoir. That is what we did with 300 after first pump went at less than 5 years.

One of those new on a W4 at this point will probably last forever. When the time does come that it's going to leak along shaft, just monitor hydraulic oil being added. The leak at the pump is the only one you cant see.

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Darald

02-28-2005 11:02:44

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-28-2005 07:25:29

I bought an IH replacement seal for a 350 pump but it did not have the spring in the seal that the original did. It also did not last and pumped the hydraulic oil into the motor. Where can the correct seal be purchased?

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CNKS

02-28-2005 19:32:09

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to Darald, 02-28-2005 11:02:44

Don't think I have ever seen a seal without the spring. They come out easily though, that may have happened. If you still have the seal, take it to any bearing/seal place and they should have one. It will probably have National/Chicago rawhide number on it anyway.

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EddyJ

02-28-2005 08:01:53

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-28-2005 07:25:29

Question, Are you guys sure those pumps are white metal and not aluminum.Need to know , I'm presently working out the details to hopefully offer rebuilding of these to like new . I have the bronze wear surfaces details hammered out but not what to use to build up the worn casting for remachining.I only have one prototype to work on presently.I wish I had a copy of the service manual to speed things along.

Any help would benefit all collectors if this works out

Thanks ED

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greywynd

02-28-2005 10:31:58

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to EddyJ, 02-28-2005 08:01:53

I work in the diecasting industry, and we use 2 of the 3 common 'white metals'. The three being zinc, aluminum and magnesium. I'm thinking that the most reliable way to figure out which it is would be to figure out the density of the part that you have. You would have to figure out the weight and volume of the part, and do some math to find the density. Let me know if you want some help, and maybe I can work you through it.
My email is open if you want to email me about it.

Mark

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EddyJ

02-28-2005 11:55:44

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to greywynd, 02-28-2005 10:31:58

Your right Mark I could figure it by density. I worked as a Patternmaker for Frontier Foundries in Niagara Falls NY. We did both green sand and The Shell Process where the aluminum patterns are heated to 500 degrees and sand blown in and baked.I'm going to take a good guess its aluminium and probally was diecast so no residual sand was in the casting . However I notice the parting and core lines are heavy so it could be a sand cast or a worn die cast.Before I play with this with the tig welder I'll try an area on the outside.

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greywynd

03-01-2005 07:44:13

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to EddyJ, 02-28-2005 11:55:44

Sounds like it's either going to be aluminum, or maybe magnesium. You could file some shavings off and see if you can get them to burn, that would tell you if it's mag or not.

Mark

Will have to stay in touch, I always wanted to learn more about the sand casting process.

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EricB

02-28-2005 08:49:25

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to EddyJ, 02-28-2005 08:01:53

Can't really say since I have never seen one but white metal casting was certainly popular in the 50s so I didn't question it. Just repeating what I was told.

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Hugh MacKay

02-28-2005 08:23:34

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Re: I gotta see this! in reply to EddyJ, 02-28-2005 08:01:53

ED: From my position I wasn't about to argue, however aluminum may be the right answer. I am quite certain on the performance and that is what really mattered to the farmer user. To be truthful with you that pump on our Farmall 300 is the only one I ever saw apart, and that was 45 years ago. My memory just isn't that good.

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