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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Throttle While Cranking

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PAULIH300

02-24-2005 14:15:24




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Funny thing,when cranking my 300U,if the throttle is closed (slow speed) it starts instantly,but if the throttle is up to full (fast) it wont start.It wont even try to start.Like there's no fuel.Is that controlled by the governor or is there a carb problem?




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Ron in Nebr

02-24-2005 18:22:00




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 Re: Throttle While Cranking in reply to PAULIH300, 02-24-2005 14:15:24  
If you ever get a chance, hook a vacum guage up to a regular automotive type engine. You'll notice that it has high vacum at idle(throttle shafts shut), but if you crack the throttle wide open the vacum will drop off to almost nothing. The pistons going down "suck" a certian amount of air into each cylinder and with the throttle blades closed, it creates a vacum in the intake. Throttle blades open past a certian point, it's basically atmospheric pressure doing all the work. On an engine running wide open, the pressure in the intake tract will be equal to atmospheric. Which is why an engine will have less power up in the mountains than it will at sea level. A turbo creates a positive pressure. Anyway, sorry for going into "engine theory 101"...back to the original question. A tractor engine is the same way- throttles closed will have a fairly high vacum in the intake system. Throttles open and it wont hardly pull a vacum at all.

So, why will a carbureted auto engine start up with the throttle open? Because an automotive carb has an accelerator pump that squirts a charge of gas into the manifold. On a tractor, with an updraft carb and no accelerator pump, the only thing getting gas out of the float bowl on the carb is the vacum created by the pistons going down in the cylinders. Open the throttle, lose the vacum, and- no gas. Unless you have the choke shut, which will do the same thing and usually give even MORE gas since it shuts off the intake tract on the upwind side of the carb.

Sorry so long-winded!

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PAULIH300

02-24-2005 18:29:32




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 Re: Throttle While Cranking in reply to Ron in Nebr, 02-24-2005 18:22:00  
Even with choke closed and throttle high it still wont start.Once the throttle is put downward it fires instantly.My guess is its a combination of things....low compression ratio,updraft carb(gas has to mist uphill and not flow downward),and lack of "suction" with the throttle wide open.
I guess its just the very nature of old gas tractors like this.



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Bob M

02-24-2005 17:40:54




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 Re: Throttle While Cranking in reply to PAULIH300, 02-24-2005 14:15:24  
Paul - That's pretty much normal. There's a couple reasons why.

1 - Unlike a carburetor on a car, your tractor's carb is pretty simple. Consequently it only has two "sweet spots" where it delivers the exact fuel/air the engine needs: At idle and at wide open throttle. Now if you crank the engine with the throttle open the carb tries to deliver the wide open mix. But the air flow thru the carb is so low at cranking speed the carb feeds little (or no) gas, and the engine behaves like it has no fuel. However setting the throttle at idle results in a fairly decent F/A mix and thus permits the engine to start.

2 - The lousy, overpriced gas the oil companies are now peddle doesn't burn worth a ^#@&!. Unless the F/A mix is close to ideal it's amazing an old tractor can be started at all.

----

Note also that different carbs/tractors behave differently. My Super H (same motor as your 300) is somewhat reluctant to start with the throttle wide open, especially when warm. But it lights right off with the throttle pushed in. And my Minnie Mo U absolutely WILL NOT start warm unless the throttle is set to dead slow. But the Super M starts no matter where the throttle is set, hot or cold. Go figure...

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Diesel Don

02-24-2005 15:45:24




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 Re: Throttle While Cranking in reply to PAULIH300, 02-24-2005 14:15:24  
My Farmall A does the same thing, and has done the same thing since Dad bought it 50+ years ago. Neither of us ever figured out why.



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PAULIH300

02-24-2005 16:01:38




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 Re: Throttle While Cranking in reply to Diesel Don , 02-24-2005 15:45:24  
Maybe its a safety feature so you dont overspeed the engine upon a dead-cold start.
Them IH engineers thought of everything! lol



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3rdgenred

02-24-2005 17:16:55




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 Re: Throttle While Cranking in reply to PAULIH300, 02-24-2005 16:01:38  
The starter doesn't turn the engine fast enough to make the main jet work well, with the throttle at idle the air is drawn through a smaller opening at a higher velocity so the fuel vaporises better. Or I could be ( and usualy am )out in left field.



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