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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Bosch starter problems... suggestions?

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fixitforfree

12-27-2004 20:10:08




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I have an IH 364 diesel (BD154 engine) with a Bosch starter. Problem is, it simply turns too slow to crank the diesel. Here"s what I know: battery is good, I even hooked 2 batteries in parallel with no change in starter power, starter has good brushes and bearings. I had the starter tested at a reliable shop I"ve used for years and he says it even looks new inside although I know it"s the starter that came on the tractor. My glow plugs work fine and the motor isn"t a fresh rebuild that is so tight and high on compression it is causing the slow turning condition. What could it be? I was told by a source other than my starter rebuild guy that these Bosch starters were problems. Said they will do the job in the warm months but won"t turn fast enough in the winter ones to crank the engine. This is the exact problem I am having. He said had to get them rewound with smaller wire and they will work fine. Anyone ever heard of this? All I have left to do is replace my battery cables which I will do but my old ones seem fine - I doubt they are the problem. Help... how do I solve this slow turning starter problem? By the way, how do I "load" test my starter to be sure it"s good, my starter rebuild guy doesn"t put a load on it. He simply opens it up and looks at the bearings and brushes and spins it on a test table. All checked fine but no load was applied.

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fixitforfree

12-28-2004 17:14:09




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 Re: Bosch starter problems... suggestions? in reply to fixitforfree, 12-27-2004 20:10:08  
Thanks for all of your comments. I will put on new cables this weekend and see what happens. This tractor doesn't turn over fast enough (in my opinion) even in warm weather but it always cranks. Seems this cold weather just made it worse. If it's not my cables it's got to be my starter windings. Are Bosch starters noted for this type of problem? Do any of you know how I can cross it to a Delco if I need a new starter?
Here are the Bosch #'s on my starter:
0 001354107
JD - 12V18PS 030 L20597

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Bill in NC

12-28-2004 14:25:55




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 Re: Bosch starter problems... suggestions? in reply to fixitforfree, 12-27-2004 20:10:08  
I agree with all the previous posts (large cables, eliminate corrosion at connections) and mention another possibility. The winding in electric motors can develop subtle "shorts" over time, particularly when the electric motors have been run on a heavy load for an extended period. The insulation on the windings degrades and, instead of the effective winding length being, say, 100 feet, the winding touches wire-to-wire through breaks in the winding wire insulation (lacquer) in a couple of places and suddenly the effective winding length is only 50 feet. Cutting the winding length in half significantly reduces the electromagnetic field potential resulting in less power and slower output rpm. The problem gets progressively worse as the starter tries to make up the field potential loss by sucking in higher amperage which in turn creates higher winding temperatures, which subsequently degrades the winding insulation, which then results in more wire-to-wire contact points, which further shortens the effective winding length. If you have the problem after putting new cables and eliminating corrosion, then the next step would be a new starter or having the starter motor rewound.

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captaink

12-28-2004 06:47:38




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 Re: Bosch starter problems... suggestions? in reply to fixitforfree, 12-27-2004 20:10:08  
Is this the first time you have had cold weather since you had the tractor? If it isn’t, and you haven’t had problems before, then you have something that has changed, like corrosion or rust somewhere in the electical curcuit. If this is the first cold weather you have had with this tractor then as others have noted the Bosch starter may be the issues. However, before I would scrap it out, get the big battery cables on. Like others have said they make a HUGE difference. Make sure that all the joints in the starter housing are polished and rust free including the nose cone to engine area. Iron does not conduct electricity nearly as well as copper, and ferric oxide (rust) doesn’t conduct electricity very well at all, thus all iron contacts must be clean to handle the current flow on the ground side of the circuit.

If it gets below 0 F, you might want to consider a lighter oil, like 10W-30 or on engines that don’t do heavy work in the winter I’ve even gone down to 10-10W. They roll over a whole lot easier when it is below zero with the lighter oil.

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Randy in NE

12-28-2004 04:03:57




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 Re: Bosch starter problems... suggestions? in reply to fixitforfree, 12-27-2004 20:10:08  
I'm not saying it isn't the starter. But there are a couple of things that I would try first. The cheapest being to ensure that the battery connections are good. This includes both ends of each of the battery cables. The battery needs a really good ground connection to complete the circuit. Next I would try new heavy duty battery cables. Hugh MacKay, myself, and others have stated the importance of good cables. Try 1 gauge or even better would be 0 gauge cables. If you had the started tested at your reliable shop they should have been able to tell you if the starter was good or not. Just because a starter looks like new on the inside doesn't mean that it is. They can test the windings and a good shop will be able to tell you if it "is" good.

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jeffcat

12-27-2004 22:51:59




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 Re: Bosch starter problems... suggestions? in reply to fixitforfree, 12-27-2004 20:10:08  
I HAD this problem with my 87 Carivan with the 3.0 V6 engine. Had an American Bosch starter on it and same story you have. Went to my favorite junk yard and hooked up to a near new Nipondonzo starter. The spelling is close enough. Be shure to take your old one with you to match up. Wow do they ever make things spin better! They chirp when they run. All of the east cars have them and I have seen them on Japan John Deeres. Back a ways I put in a post on Interstate Optima batteries. Check it out. Had to do with batterie cables. These things really work! Jeffcat

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jeffcat

12-27-2004 23:00:34




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 Re: Bosch starter problems... suggestions? in reply to jeffcat, 12-27-2004 22:51:59  
PS page #4 Testimonial batterie cables.



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JB2

12-27-2004 22:36:17




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 Re: Bosch starter problems... suggestions? in reply to fixitforfree, 12-27-2004 20:10:08  
Hi, neighbor had a 574D with Bosch starter and it gave problems and he was able to get a Delco Remy
replacement starter.

You could investigate if there was an OEM Delco Remy made for the BD154 engine.

Good luck
JB2



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