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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Farmall H without sleeves?.

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Jonathan

08-04-2004 11:50:36




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I had a friend suggest that I'd be better off not to use sleeves at all in my farmall H block. I was going to get some thinner sleeves and bigger pistons to increase displacement and gain more torque, but his suggestion does interest me. The big question is how well the engine would hold up, and will I have big time overheating issues without sleeves.
Thanks in advance!.




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MPJ

08-05-2004 19:19:43




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Jonathan, 08-04-2004 11:50:36  
I just put a 350 piston in a 300 block in my H and boy does it run. I got pistons off Ebay for cheap. In Red Power magazine I see an ad for Pistons for motors with or without sleeves and more compresion than even the fire cater.



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Shaggy

08-04-2004 21:14:31




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Jonathan, 08-04-2004 11:50:36  
I was told that you can bore the block to accept a set of massey 4in.over bore sleeves and the compression height is the same. So no fancy Rods. This is just something I was told so don't shoot me.



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Jonathan

08-04-2004 18:25:40




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Jonathan, 08-04-2004 11:50:36  
Thanks all!. I'm going to look into 350 sleeves, and see what kind of gains I cold get there. It is a regular H and I wanted to build an engine thats powerful, but also be able to use it for farm work. I would like to keep liners in it because it would be nice to be able to have an easily rebuildable block later on. Good point about the stock H head possibly not fitting over the bores properly, thats something I'd also have to check into.

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lee

08-04-2004 18:03:45




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Jonathan, 08-04-2004 11:50:36  
I would think the H cylinders (note I said cylinders) would cool better if they were not sleeved due to the fact it is a dry sleeve engine and cooling depends on intimate contact of the sleeves with the block with the coolant. The sleeves are a pretty good fit but not as good as if the block itself were bored to create the cylinders. But the block was designed as a sleeve engine so I am sure there are problems associated with simply boring it for large pistons. How much material is in the cylinder wall if you fit pistons without sleeves? What about the counterbore at the deck surface? The sleeve is stepped in diameter (I believe) to fit that counterbore and retain the sleeve. Does the H have an O ring groove at the bottom as the A, B, etc..? Will that groove scuff the piston? I am not really familiar with H. If no groove, where is the oil seal? At the head gasket?
Will the head gasket seal with no sleeve there? Will the whople thing really work without a sleeve? My take, that dog don't hunt.

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Milan

08-04-2004 15:38:13




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Jonathan, 08-04-2004 11:50:36  
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a packing ring (o-ring) that goes on the bottom of the sleeve that seals the water jackets that are around the sleeves ???? Keeping the coolant out of the oil pan ???



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rustyfarmall

08-04-2004 16:24:32




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Milan, 08-04-2004 15:38:13  
OK, I will correct you, the old Farmalls used what is called a dry sleeve, you are thinking of wet sleeves, which were used on several other brands of tractors. The dry sleeves are a press fit into a bored cylinder.



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CNKS

08-04-2004 18:54:17




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to rustyfarmall, 08-04-2004 16:24:32  
A,B,C, etc, wet--H,M, etc dry.



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Milan

08-04-2004 16:54:07




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to rustyfarmall, 08-04-2004 16:24:32  
O.K., I'll admit the brain fart, I thought about that about five minutes after I posted it. Even went digging for the I&T manual... LOL



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El Toro

08-04-2004 14:56:43




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Jonathan, 08-04-2004 11:50:36  
Hi Jonathan, Take Rusty's advice and don't listen to your friend. Sleeves should've been used in all engines in my opinion. You're taking a step backwards by not using your sleeves. You can go from 3 3/8" bore to 31/2" with an oversize kit and you will have more than enough power to create wheel slippage under heavy load. Keep using those sleeves. Good Luck, Hal



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rustyfarmall

08-04-2004 14:19:33




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Jonathan, 08-04-2004 11:50:36  
If you have a regular H, not a super, then you can get an overbore set of sleeves and pistons which will result in the same displacment as the super H has, and that is a big step. Please don't ruin a good block by running it without sleeves.



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captaink

08-04-2004 12:40:02




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Jonathan, 08-04-2004 11:50:36  
My 2 cents worth� What you are considering is very unconventional and likely a �point of no return� for the block unless a lot of money is spent later. First hurdle will be to find pistons that will fit. Then later down the road if you want to go back to sleeves, the block will have been worn, and will need to be over-bored and �permanent� sleeves put in for the �replaceable liners� to fit into. This is where the lot of money part comes in. As far as heat, a lot will depend on how hard and long you plan to work the engine. I would suggest you consider just how much the extra cubes are worth before going this route.

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Aces

08-04-2004 12:37:16




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Jonathan, 08-04-2004 11:50:36  
Jonathan either way I would think you would have to bore it unless you can find thiner sleves the over sixe sleves were not that thick to start with. Why not bore it out for 350 sleves?



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Ed

08-04-2004 13:51:05




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Aces, 08-04-2004 12:37:16  
Will the trans hold up? If you want more HP then think about moviong up to a M



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parts man

08-04-2004 19:52:43




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 Re: Farmall H without sleeves?. in reply to Ed, 08-04-2004 13:51:05  
We salvage tractors, and we almost never sell transmision parts for Hs, and have never sold an axle. An H will split the wheel clamp, Cs break axles.



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