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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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What makes a Super M or H

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Wayne

12-08-2003 12:09:16




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What makes a M or H a Super?




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sammy the RED

12-09-2003 02:35:51




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 Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Wayne, 12-08-2003 12:09:16  
I know a lot of guys say disk brakes and the battery under the seat make it a Super.

I say what makes a H and a M a Super H or a Super M is the motor and the gears.

I dont care if the battery is on the hood, it don't matter..... LOL

And the hyd. was an option.



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Medfarm

12-09-2003 00:12:45




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 Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Wayne, 12-08-2003 12:09:16  
One of the main differences between a M and super M was the M came with a 3.875" bore and the super M had a 4.00" bore. Engine displacement from the factory went from 248 to 264 cubic inches. As was noted, the rebuild kits for the M usually came with 4" pistons and sleeves. Ray



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Hugh MacKay

12-08-2003 20:15:14




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 Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Wayne, 12-08-2003 12:09:16  
Wayne: We are now close to 50 years since the last supers were built. Just about every improvment the supers had could have been added to a non super by now. Then you have the guys that just add paint and the super decal.

The only thing that counts with me anymore is serial number and/or casting code.



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Dr.EVIL

12-09-2003 10:14:50




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 Re: Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2003 20:15:14  
HUGH - A LOT of the changes between the non-Super & Super H's & M's could NOT be simply bolted on, like the bigger pilot bearings in the transmission, or the IH disc brakes (the one's You can still get parts for) or the induction hardened gears in the differential, greaseless clutch pilot bearing, Live Hyd., etc. Dad's '51 M has live Hyd, 7 mph 4th gear, power steering, 12" clutch like a Super M, but it's Still just an M. Your comment about Paint & a decal is probably good advice now days because so few people involved with these old tractors actually KNOW (or care) about the fact there IS a difference. The responsibility isn't 100% on the seller to identify if the tractor is a Super H or Super M. If I was spending the kind of $$$$ these things cost now, I for darned sure would be able to tell one from another before I wrote someone a check. My $0.02

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Hugh MacKay

12-09-2003 16:37:33




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 Re: Re: Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Dr.EVIL, 12-09-2003 10:14:50  
Dr. Evil: Don't talk to me about what will bolt up to this or that. I think I've seen just about it all. I drove some distance one day to look at a Super H, equiped with live hydraulics, band brakes, battery under seat, proper front bolster, SH wide front, old style front wheels and old type rear wheels. There are one wack of re-engineered old Farmalls around the country side. I've even seen Farmall C and SC with 6 cylinder Chev car clutches.

Never say it cant be done, someone will figure out how to do it. This is precisely why I stick by serial numbers and casting codes. If a tractor doesn't have a serial tag, in my books it's just a parts tractor, absolutely nothing more.

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Paul in Mich

12-09-2003 11:10:39




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 Re: Re: Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Dr.EVIL, 12-09-2003 10:14:50  
Dr. Evil, Your last point brings us back to the point Hugh made which is that after all these years, the only way to legitimately determine the model of any of these tractors is the serial #, and casting codes. Merely changing Sleeves, pistons and other components may bring the HP to that of a "Super" or even a subsequent Numbered model, but that doesn't in itself make the tractor a "Super". By being familiar with a casting code chart, one can determine if that code matches the serial #. Through the years, many castings have been replaced througha a variety of reasons from replaced engines to axle housings, to rear end housings etc. The trained eye can tell which castings have been replaced if the replaced casting is from a different year. One can tell if the engine matches the serial # by matching engine sn to ID plate sn. I'm sure many or you folks here have seen the "SHTA" ( Super HTA") picture that has floated around. The truth is that IH never made a "SHTA". It was a well constructed tractor which featured "300" castings and "SH" sheet metal. The point is that so many parts are either inerchangable, or adaptable from one model to the other, but serial # and casting codes determine the model.

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Red Dave

12-08-2003 15:50:44




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 Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Wayne, 12-08-2003 12:09:16  
Many good points below. I'll just add that my understanding of the "Supers" is they were designed to pull the same implements, but at a higher speed through the field, therefore getting more work done in the same amount of time.



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Rich

12-08-2003 17:57:30




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 Re: Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Red Dave, 12-08-2003 15:50:44  
I have 2 H's and a series 2 Super H and there is no comparison. I think the Super would work along side a regular M. It has a lot of snort.



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Paul in Mich

12-08-2003 15:30:02




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 Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Wayne, 12-08-2003 12:09:16  
A couple other subtle changes from the H and M to the supers were Batteries under the seat, sealed beam lights, kill switch mounted on the ammeter and light switch box, relocation of the voltage regulator(for the umteenth time) from the rear gas tank pedistal to the front gas tank pedistal, installation of starter switch to the starter motor, Stage II H had a different lower front bolster casting, Side rails had different hole patterns. The M lower bolster changed with the SMTA. Stage II h's and SMTa's had a different grill with the equipment stablizer mounting bolt holes further out on the grill rather than 2 inches apart at the center. all these changes were general as IH was noted for using up some systems they had before switching over to the new system, thus you could easily find a late production H or M with an update system or an early production super with the old system.

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Hugh MacKay

12-09-2003 16:20:05




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 Re: Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Paul in Mich, 12-08-2003 15:30:02  
Paul: I'm with you on the changes, I don't think it was very cut and dried when they occured. My dad bought a new H in spring of 51, it had disc brakes that parts would interchange with 300. We also never noticed that great hp change everyone talks about when the new 300 came in 55. Dad always said if it wasn't for TA on 300 you would hardly notice difference plowing, disking, etc. My question is, just when did the H to Super engine change occur.

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Gary in TX

12-08-2003 14:29:46




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 Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Wayne, 12-08-2003 12:09:16  
Sorry but I can't resist, a cape and blue tights!
I hope to get an H and a M before too long. I'm a deere driver but I like the old farmalls too.



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42FarmallH

12-08-2003 13:55:49




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 Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Wayne, 12-08-2003 12:09:16  
All of the previously mentioned is true, but there were also LOTS of little changes, such as larger bearings, stronger gears, etc. See link.



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Bill Smith

12-08-2003 13:14:43




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 Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Wayne, 12-08-2003 12:09:16  
Farmall produced the H from 39 to 53, and the M from 39 to 52. Farmall only made minor changes to these tractors over the coarse of these years. Farmall released there super series in 52 for the M and 53 for the H. Farmall would only make these super series tractors for, what a couple plus years. Basically is what they did, was take the same tractor and soup it up a little, and added a little more modern stuff to it. Pete has stated some of the actual changes and so forth. These tractors were a little more appealing to the consumer than the plan old H's and M's. Farmall then came out with the 300 and 400 series in 54 which marked the end of the super letter series. At the time of releasal, the changes that were made for the supers probably seemed major, but looking back at it over the years of tractor evolution, it don't seem like to much difference between an H or super H. Don't believe me, drive either one of them all day compared to a modern day tractor. I still like my old H's and M though.

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PeteNY

12-08-2003 12:29:12




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 Re: What makes a Super M or H in reply to Wayne, 12-08-2003 12:09:16  
Wayne, They increased the engine size, put disc breaks on them, and with the exception of a few Super H's (the very early one's were called stage 1 Super H's) they put live hydraulics on them.
The power increase was noticeable and VERY usable.It was needed, especially in the case of the H which was being encroached upon by the cheaper and handier Super c's which had been introduced earlier and had Fast Hitch available.

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