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Poor excuse for tractors

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Shultzy

12-06-2002 18:30:05




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We have run Farmall H's, M's, Super M's, and a BN for years. Love them all. Our bigger tractors have all been Cases until about 10 years years go when we decided to get a 756, and then got an 806 a few years later hoping for better results. What a big disappointment! No low end torque from either of them - always shifting - and shifting is just the handiest thing as you grind away from one ot the next, and then hope like crazy that it will stay in when going down hill with a load of silage behind you.

They do have their nice points - they're great for hauling silage - heavy, great traction, and handy pto for unloading. But fast hitches, gear grinding, slipping torques, and lack of low end torque will prevent us from trying any more of the later model IH's. We'll stick with the good old original farmalls - we kind of think things slowly went down hill after the M's and H's.

These two tractors have also spent more time in our shop than the rest of our fleet of over 15 tractors combined since we have owned them. Usually nothing serious - just nagging time consuming problems - who's idea was it to put the fuel tank on top of the engine anyways! We have had some of the best IH mechanics around working on both of them at times, and when they were done they say that they're both about average for what they usually see for 756's and 806's. If that's average - we'll stick with our Cases.

No color war intended - just a little frustrated with them and needed to vent. The H's and M's will never leave, but the 756 and 806 are getting closer to the door every year.

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RPM

12-09-2002 15:22:59




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 Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-06-2002 18:30:05  
Your tractors you bought 10 years ago were still made in the 60s, so they are 25 years old and probably need a lot of work, the H/M are a lot older and simpler, cheaper to keep up. 806 and up were HD tillage use tractors and this is hard on them, they werent perfect but they were pretty tough compared to whatever else was available, including JD, JD 4020 was a nice little tractor.



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casered

12-08-2002 20:06:22




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 Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-06-2002 18:30:05  
I just have to add my two cents here. I was born and raised on IH tractors and I love to use them in the field, I even belong to the local IH collectors club. But I have to say that the 766D that we have is the most ignorant shifting tractor that I have ever driven of any brand. I love to drive the tractor and I think it works well in the field but for manuevering around the barnyard I'll drive my H's and M's or my 1270 Case with a powershift. I'm not putting down any brand of tractor as I believe they all have their good points and downfalls and maybe this is just something with our particular unit. Just my two cents. Have a good one.

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Shultzy

12-08-2002 12:19:18




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 Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-06-2002 18:30:05  
Glad to see some response to this one. Wasn't trying to get a bind in anyone's shorts - just expressing what we've delt with and the frustrations. Both are diesle's - 310 german and 361. The comparison I guess I was thinking about in my mind on low end torque is an experience we had this past summer with our 930 case. Although slightly more cubes than the 806, it's still in the same ball park on the HP ratings. We have a hill we need to travel when hauling wagins on the road, and the 806 which is turned up a bit over stock will climb this hill in high gear with an empty hay wagon behind it - but only if you have it completely hammered at the bottom of this hill - and you still need to pull the torque 3/4 up the hill. This past summer I was about to go up the same hill with the baler and two empty wagons hooked behind the 930 and the milk truck was coming down the hill - so I laid off and went down to basically an idle when he passed me at the bottom. I thought about shifting down, but thought I'd see if it would hack it. By the top if the hill we were back up to full speed and I never shifted a bit. The old case doesn't need a torque - it does just fine without it. Our 970 and 1070 are similar - we shift the powershift to change speed for operating conditions and rarely because of a lack of power. Our farm is has a lot of hills - some steep and some rolling.

Our 930 was bought new back in the 60's but the 970 and 1070 were both bought used just shortly befor ethe two IH's we're comparing here- so I do not agree with the "prior maintenance" theory too much - although I do agree that it can be a factor. The 756 is about the same shape as the one used at Nisbet(for the TP from Central PA:), but I will admit the 806 is a little rougher - although I personally like it better than the 756. The 756 is just way to much rearend for that engine in my opinion, and I'm not sure that shifter was a big improvement.

As for parting with them - we've put too much $ into them to recoup it in reselling them - so we'll probably just keep them around and see if they can't earn their keep here after a while. We are optimistic that some day we'll figure out what all the IH diehards have been saying all along - maybe they'll eventually just grow on us :) But it has definitely not been love at first drive.

As for driving stick - both of my vehicles are stick. I can use an H or M with a PTO driven piece of equipment and shift gears without grinding a one - but just can't pull that stund off with these newer ones - in the field, on the road, anywhere. Maybe you have some sort of fancy double clutch and a half method that you use that works - if so please let me know as it would really help me keep my sanity.

Have fun and keep safe.

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Hugh MacKay

12-08-2002 19:38:33




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 Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-08-2002 12:19:18  
In earlier post I indicated I would agree with you on some points and really never did say what they were. That 8 speed + TA transmission in larger 06, 56, 66 and 86 series was built for and was only good for field work. I agree 100% not worth a damn on any job requireing frequent shifting. I did most of my farming with Farmalls 300, 560D, 656D, 1066 and a 100hp Deere with power shift. The 300 and 560 were wagon haulers, Deere was for shuttle work, and you know what the other 2 did.

I will agree on those German diesels, no torque. The most obvious was the 886 tractors, early ones being 360 American Diesels and the late models being 358 German Diesels. No comparison in the tractors ability. IH sold a lot of 886 on the reputation of the 360. There were a lot of disapointments.

There must be something wrong with your 806 as most of them would come in not far behind the 1206, 1256 or 1066. I once passed a highway tractor trailer on a heavy hill with my 1066 pulling roughly 10 ton behind it. The highway tractor was obviously loaded a lot heavier. In fact I never used the TA, and 1066 was at 2300rpm at bottom of hill as well as all the way up the hill.

I am sorry sir but in my opinion there is not much farming going on where the hills are so steep an 806 or 856 will not take the baler and two wagons over in high gear without using the TA.

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mr ob

12-08-2002 09:57:30




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 Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-06-2002 18:30:05  
they just seem to have a asaenine owner, in my opinion there was never a better tractor built than a 806---666 1066---5488 the tractor you are raggen on is 40 years old mayby time for its first oil and filter change, mayby even a tube of grease , do you want some cheese to go with the wine? colby/ or american? as for the fast hitch thatcan b replaced with 3 point, but your tight a## wont spend the mony, thats why you bought A tractor with fh instead of 3 point to start with

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mr ob

12-08-2002 14:59:25




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 Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to mr ob, 12-08-2002 09:57:30  
red baron fck the only thing missing is ewu



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The Red Baron

12-08-2002 17:28:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to mr ob, 12-08-2002 14:59:25  
You must have quite an axe to grind there OB. You seem a little touchy there for some reason. I've got a feeling that you must spend a great deal of your time being angry at the world. Tough luck chump. Sounds like you need a woman or something to take some of that nastiness away. Good luck finding one though. I suspect you don't even have any male friends, let alone girl friends. Don't wonder why, it is altogether too obvious to the rest of us.

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mr ob

12-10-2002 08:30:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to The Red Baron, 12-08-2002 17:28:58  
thats me and i have smart a$$ neck tie wearin smart mouth pretty boy pric$$ like you for lunch



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The Red Baron

12-08-2002 11:04:17




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 Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to mr ob, 12-08-2002 09:57:30  
I confess that I know very little about either the 806 or the 756 but if he is having problems with them then it is his legitimate experience. I have seen some amusing posts on hear that egged other people on a bit but yours is without question the most boorish post I have seen--totally devoid of either real information or humor. For someone who is in such a rush to slam someone else, you might consider the use of a spell checker before rushing out next time to try and diss someone but making yourself look like a belligerent fool instead. The poor guy. I hope he gets some resolution to his problems with his tractors. May you on the other hand encounter some difficulty this week that someone could help you out of but does not. Remember your churlish post when it happens.

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tim

12-07-2002 08:25:07




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 Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-06-2002 18:30:05  
i happen to be a fan of those 401/451/504 case engines but i never confused slow revs as low end torque.



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TP from Central PA

12-07-2002 07:48:10




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 Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-06-2002 18:30:05  
Where are you at?? I would love to take those two tractors off your hands!!! We have a 560 that I think is a lemon but I also realize that there are alot of good 560's out there and they work well, we just got a bad one....

I think the 06 and 56 series are one of the best.....if your near PA let me know..... ..I will take them off your hands!



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Hugh MacKay

12-07-2002 03:15:58




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 Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-06-2002 18:30:05  
I have to agree with a lot of what you are saying, however to me it sounds like you farm with used tractors, and used tractors as such can be someone else's troubles or lack of maintanence. We hear people everyday complaining about IH TA and JD power shift, both in my opinion excellent products. Use of improper oils in both has been the biggest problem. I just amazes me to hear some of the products dumped into machines, and by people you would think know better.

Like Steven, I agree torque on the diesels is not a problem. After being out of farming a friend asked me to give him a hand one spring. He had for tractors a Farmall 666 and 886 with 360 engine as well as a new CaseIH 2090 (I am not sure on that number had 5.9 Cummins and around 100 hp.) he was all excited about. More torque and more power than the 886. The 886 was 2 wheel drive with 18.4x38 duals. Case had 4x4 with 18.4 x38 on rear. I used both of these tractors spreading manure and discing over a period of about a week. He wanted my opinion on new CaseIH. I said,"it is a good thing it has the power shift or it would never haul the big manure spreader over the dales on your marsh, the 886 doesn't need to shift not even the TA." This guy was quite a hot head so by now I had him quite excited. so I threw in another jab, I said," Being used to my own IH 1066, I think they both suck." One day I was in field discing with new CaseIH, my friend pulls up along side with his pickup, climbs in cab with me, practically shoves me out of seat to right of cab and said, "let me show you how to drive this tractor." He was going along, I looked at tach, grabed the power shift lever and moved it quite quickly up to high, before he could get his foot on clutch it stalled. He said,"what did you do that for." I said," that is the speed 886 was pulling disc at yesterday." He jumped out of tractor and back to his pickup, almost burried pickup in loose soil. This guy had two full time employees on farm, and that evening in a discussionon what every one was going to do next day. He said to the two guys," why didn't you guys tell me the Case was so gutless." They responded," the difference is we need our jobs, Hugh doesn't." Next day he then turned on the CaseIH dealer and gave him the gears.

It always amazes me the number of people on forums compareing tractors and judging one against the other, and you discover they are buying 15-20 year old tractors which they have no record of the maintenance on that tractor and trying to run a commercial farm enterprise with them. I am not saying this is not the way to do things. If I were going back into farming today it would not be with new tractors. Tractors, all makes, built since early 1980s are nightmares when something goes wrong. So remember guys, when you are buying 15- 20 year old tractors you are judging the maintenance as much as you are the manufacturer. If as one respondant suggested you are using 60+ hp gassers on a commercial farm that is your problem.

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Steven@nd

12-06-2002 19:07:55




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 Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-06-2002 18:30:05  
Sadly, I have to agree on some points. I love the Case powershift transmission, has been trouble free for us. However, we had an 806 with 24,000 hours on it when we traded it. Had 12k hours when it was overhauled the first time. Had one clutch put in around 14k hours. Still had original TA in it when we traded it. Our 1086 and 1256 have held up well too, especially the 1256 considering the abuse we give it on the loader.

I don't know what the problem is with your 806 either - is it a gas? Our diesel 806 would pull the chisel plow at 1000 RPM same as at 2000 RPM. IH diesels are known for the low end lugging power, the 6-cylinder gas engines I've encountered haven't been overly powerful on the low end.

My 0.02 worth.

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JD

12-06-2002 19:06:59




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 Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Shultzy, 12-06-2002 18:30:05  

This is why IH lost out. John Deere had Power shift in 1964. Don't let people tell you Power shift is not good. If you take care of them they last a long time. They all have it today. CaseIH White, MF All of them.



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Jcnc

12-07-2002 10:48:26




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 Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to JD, 12-06-2002 19:06:59  
Sorry to change the subject, but wondered if you could tell me what John Deere had for hydraulic lift before the 3-point type. I know IH first had an exhaust powred lift, and then the Lift-all. Thanks ..... .I was talking with a relative, and we couldn't remember.

Happy Holidays!.



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JD

12-07-2002 13:49:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to Jcnc, 12-07-2002 10:48:26  

John Deere had the industry first power lift to raise or lower intergral equipment. This was on the GP built from 1928 to 1935.

Sometime in the 1940s John Deere had an industry first Power-Trol. for remote control of towed implements.

Around 1954 on the 50 60 and 70 they had the 800 and then 801 hitch. Vary much like a real 3 point hitch.

In 1956 John Deere had New universal 3 point hitch, with load-and-depth control.
This was a real 3 point hitch! I have it on my 620. It really works good.

In 1960 New generation of power tractors the 3010 and 4010 had new 3 point hitch with lower-link sensing.

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Jcnc

12-07-2002 16:56:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to JD, 12-07-2002 13:49:28  
Thanks for the good info. Now I recall that name Power-Trol..... .



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john- triple T farms

12-06-2002 19:53:26




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 Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to JD, 12-06-2002 19:06:59  
The power shift is why I sold my 4230 and bought the 966 that I still have today. The 4230 spent more time in the shop than the field. The old 4020 never broke down, but would give you whiplash every time you shift. Finley traded it in on a 1256 which I love. You can't even compair the pto' and steering in the two tractors. The 1086-966-1256 ta's never a bit of trouble!



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JD

12-07-2002 06:02:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to john- triple T farms, 12-06-2002 19:53:26  

I'll bet! I know John Deere tractors and IH tractors better then that. Lets see you shift that 1256 like it has Power shift.
Maybe your one of them guys that never change the oil. Then it's that dam John Deere.



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Wheels

12-08-2002 10:47:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to JD, 12-07-2002 06:02:28  
He doesn't need to shift, He has plenty of power. I assume from you comment about changing oil a IH will stand up to that treatment and a deere won't.

Good Day

Wheels



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john

12-07-2002 09:33:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to JD, 12-07-2002 06:02:28  
Presonaly, I don't need to shift gears up and down all the time. Once with the TA is enough for me. That my opion on what I perfer.I not calling JD's junk, you get lemons in any make. My tractors have enough power to start out in a high enough gear with out having to shift up to get started out. Oh yea, I have been around JD's- IH- FORD for over 61 years and worked on them all.



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j d not

12-07-2002 09:29:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to JD, 12-07-2002 06:02:28  
on john deeres you don't have to change the oill because it leaks out.j d you sound like one of those brainwashed john deere guys that pee yellow and i think you can figure out the rest



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I drink green beer too!

12-07-2002 10:09:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to j d not, 12-07-2002 09:29:59  



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806 guy

12-07-2002 08:37:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to JD, 12-07-2002 06:02:28  
I can shift them IH's through all the gears on the go just fine. Maybe not quite as good as PS but I dont have a problem that. In my opinion PS is like automatic transmission in a car and tractors without PS are like manual transmission in a car. You must be one of them guys that never drove stick shift in a car or truck and dont know how.



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Sure i can drive a stick. But you can have it to

12-07-2002 10:07:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor excuse for tractors in reply to 806 guy, 12-07-2002 08:37:49  



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