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Discussion Forum
:

IMPOSTURE SUPERM

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Will@ont.ca

05-06-2002 21:19:44




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I was scaning for tractors on ebay and come across this one:53 Super"M" serial #46552,this tractor does not look to be a "Super",there is only a belly pump on it and nothing extra behined the distributor where the pump should be AND he's got 7 bids on it."ebay #1727437976"




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Tim Malin

05-07-2002 06:25:31




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 Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Will@ont.ca, 05-06-2002 21:19:44  
My 53 Super M has a live hydraulic belly pump, and I am proud of it. Not all Super Ms had that stupid looking hydraulic pump up by the distributer, with the hoses that are simply a pain in the butt (trust me I know two SMTA's.) If you actually know your stuff you would know that the discription in words simply does not say enough. I heard from an antique tractor owner once that "No two Super M's are alike. You know, I am yet to find one like mine. Simply my Super M owner's input.

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Tim Malin

05-08-2002 08:14:37




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 Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Tim Malin, 05-07-2002 06:25:31  
Sorry everybody, especially Will@ont.ca. I did not intend to sound nearly as harsh as some of you think I was, I was just stating what I know and feel, my own opinion. According to serial number, I have a live hydraulic belly pump. Go figure. I know it's hydraulics have been used, and I am yet to confirm that. I will be sure to post what I find once I install the hydraulic hoses. I am sorry for any unintentional offense. I do not mean to be anyone who cuts down or talks negative.

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Yo Tim!

05-07-2002 17:34:07




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 Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Tim Malin, 05-07-2002 06:25:31  
A live belly pump!?Hows that possible,never heard of one or seen on that was live.TNR



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Will@ont.ca SORRY

05-07-2002 15:45:12




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 Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Tim Malin, 05-07-2002 06:25:31  
SORRY'I didn't mean to rattle your cage,I have never heard anybody say "that's a Farmall Super"M" stage 1,or stage 2,,I just sold an "M" and it looked just like the one in the add.As far as the belly pumps go I use them in my H's year round and can work them with the best of them,but I guess you couldn't see what I wrote for the smoke.If I was buying a SM it better have live PTO and a live hyd pump with it's own resorvor.

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MEOW!

05-07-2002 06:51:58




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 Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Tim Malin, 05-07-2002 06:25:31  
We don't need to be catty! These tractors are 47 to 49 years old and many have been modified since leaving the factory. I have seen many that were upgraded and I have seen some that were damaged and repaired with castings from older models. Will@ont now has the benefit of information from the other posts. If you had spent endless hours on an H or M 50 years ago using the old liftall system you might have a little more respect for the stupid live hydraulic pump as your refer to it. There was less than 15 years between production of the Super M and the end of production of the F-30 and WWII accounted for a big part of that period. Lets be thankful that technological advances took place and not be too critical in judging those steps against todays technology. Prior to WWII most farmers were likely still walking behind mules and horses for most of their day.

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boog

05-07-2002 05:44:57




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 Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Will@ont.ca, 05-06-2002 21:19:44  
According to the serial # it would be a late '52 SM. The SM were in released in three statges. StageI came out in 52 and had the 263.9ci engine and had a belly pump and disc brakes with the battery under the gas tank. StageII was released in late 53 and the main changes were the live hyd., with pump behind distributer, and battery under the seat. I've not seen one like Dale13's. Either it was made during changeover or someone has changed the battery location. The Stage III was released in 1954 and is what we know the SMTA with the changes being the T/A and the addition of live pto. The SM wasstill offered in '54 as well as the SMTA with out the T/A. Actually the T/A was an option on the SMTA. A Stage IV was to be released but it underwent design changes and was released as the 400. BTW the disc brakes were an option on the late M's though a different style was used than on the SM.

SM Beginning Serial # Year 501 1952 12516 1953 51977 1954
SMTA TA60001 1954

boog

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boog

05-07-2002 16:17:03




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 Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to boog, 05-07-2002 05:44:57  
Meant to say that SMTA had independent live pto.

boog



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RPM-mostly correct

05-07-2002 07:46:22




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 Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to boog, 05-07-2002 05:44:57  
The descriptions of phases is correct, the first SM was a M with more cubes & disc brakes, the brakes were also used on very last M made, there is a lot of confusion on brakes yet, IH made parts kits to install disc brakes on H/M with band brakes, these were different parts entirely than disc that came on tractor. We always joked at our dealer about the way IH did things, they always used the leftovers in model changes somehow.

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Dale13

05-07-2002 03:31:06




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 Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Will@ont.ca, 05-06-2002 21:19:44  
If it has the IH disc brakes it is a Super.First Super M's had the belly pump and the battery under the tank,next they moved the battery under the seat,then they added the live pump.My 53 Super M was made in April and has the belly pump and the battery under the seat.But they all had 264 block and disc brakes.



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boog

05-07-2002 05:53:10




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 Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Dale13, 05-07-2002 03:31:06  
Dale13,

I have not seen a SM such as yours with the belly pump and the battery under the seat. Do you have more info on it? Does it have the Lift-All unit under the gas tank as did the SMs with live hyd.? Did you or family purchase it new? I was thinking that maybe it was built either during changeover or the baterry location had been changed by a previous owner. Another possibility was that Ih was doing some testing on seat location or design prior to change over and this tractor got out.

boog

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Ludwig

05-07-2002 10:35:08




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 Re: Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to boog, 05-07-2002 05:53:10  
I have a '52 stage I Super M with the battery under the tank like Dale13's. Mine was bought some time in the early '60s. Disc brakes, belly pump. Serial number makes it a '52.
The liftall isn't under the tank, that didn't happen until they moved the battery box like Dale13 mentioned.

You're wrong about it being a "one off" or factory prototype the early Super Ms were just more like the older Ms.

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Ludwig - dang

05-07-2002 10:40:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Ludwig, 05-07-2002 10:35:08  
I read Dale13's post to quickly. Indeed his does seem a bit odd.



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TNR

05-07-2002 02:37:43




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 Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Will@ont.ca, 05-06-2002 21:19:44  
Its got disc brakes.



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Night Stalker

05-07-2002 00:04:58




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 Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Will@ont.ca, 05-06-2002 21:19:44  
Hi Will, I am not that familiar with the M model as I am with the H model. BUT the H model had two stages of production a Stage I and Stage II.

This could very easily be a Super M afterall, espically if the M model had the two different stages of production.

If Farmall made both the Stage I and Stage II Super M's this one would be a Stage I and it would not have had live hydraulics, but it would have had a belly pump if it was installed when new or over the years. There would be no pump, or signs of one behind the distributor as you stated on a Stage I.

Going by the serial number provided it could easily be a 1952 Super M.

The seller has it listed as a 1953, remember that this could be a late 1952 that he or someone may have bought new in 1953.

I am sure that other people here do know if a Stage I and Stage II were manufactued, and if I am wrong please correct me. I do not wish to provide false information to you or anyone else.

Night Stalker

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LarryG

05-07-2002 05:45:04




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 Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to Night Stalker, 05-07-2002 00:04:58  
I have an early '53 Stage I just as you describe - disc brakes and a belly pump. I bought an IH live pump for it but I haven't had the guts to install it because I have to change out the front engine cover, and I hate to open up that engine because it runs perfectly and doesn't leak a drop of oil.



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Done that

05-07-2002 08:12:45




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 Re: Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to LarryG, 05-07-2002 05:45:04  
If you have 53 SM engine pump should bolt on as is.



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boog

05-07-2002 05:59:24




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 Re: Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to LarryG, 05-07-2002 05:45:04  
LarryG,

As if I recall you will need to change the timing gear to a heavier one as they had problems with the one used in tractors with belly pumps. They would break from the extra torque created when swicthed to the live pump. Check back in Y/T's archives as there has been several discussions on this in the past.

Good luck,
boog



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Salvage Man

05-07-2002 07:40:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: IMPOSTURE SUPERM in reply to boog, 05-07-2002 05:59:24  
The SM's all had the heavy gears.



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