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The true end of IH/Navistar?

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Steven@AZ

02-28-2007 17:03:46




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From a press release:

Navistar International Corp. said Monday it is suspending production of a diesel engine it builds for Ford Motor Co. because Ford has stopped honoring contract terms.

Ford uses the engines in its heavy-duty pickup trucks, and Navistar has been an engine supplier to Ford, the No. 2 U.S. automaker, since 1979, Navistar said in a statement.

Ford sued Navistar in January in a Michigan state court over a contract dispute regarding warranty costs and engine prices for the 6.4-liter engines, Bloomberg reported. Navistar is Ford’s sole supplier of the engines, called Power Strokes

The engines are produced at Navistar plants in Huntsville, Ala., and Indianapolis. A company spokesman said the Indianapolis plant will be idled starting Tuesday, Bloomberg reported.

Navistar is the parent company of International Truck and Engine Corp., which makes heavy-duty engines. On a sidenote, Penkse leasing which buys thousands of trucks a year has gotten very gunshy of Navistar due to the financial shape of the company, and quality concerns.


Thoughts?

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superih

03-01-2007 16:32:08




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to Steven@AZ, 02-28-2007 17:03:46  
Cause Ford is not paying there bills.



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dhermesc

03-01-2007 06:05:06




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 Re: The true end of Ford? in reply to Steven@AZ, 02-28-2007 17:03:46  
Actually I was thinking it was more a case of it being the beginning of the end for Ford.

Navistar took a huge beating from Ford when the 6.0 came out in 2003 & 2004. The engine didn't have near the problems in Navistar products as it did in Ford products. The biggest issue with the early 6.0 in Ford light duties was the injectors - spected by Ford to be Bosch instead of Seimens and the electronic controls to meet the tighter EPA regs for light duty trucks - a Ford designed spec that failed miserably.

Navistar is playing it smart, before they retool to build the 6.4 at the high production levels that the Ford contract will require they are going to make sure Ford is fully aware that their contract is binding and not something that Ford execs use as toilet paper in in their gold plated bathrooms.

Right now Ford is on the edge of bankruptcy - maybe even closer then Chrysler was in early 80s. The massive tooling costs they paid to develope and build the 500 has not paid off. They invested in what they hoped would be another 1985 Taurus and got another Edsel.

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nspec

02-28-2007 18:29:22




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to Steven@AZ, 02-28-2007 17:03:46  
I don"t know if you caught the news or not, but a year or so ago (I think) Ford had such horrendous problems with some of those engines that they were buying the trucks back from the owners. I believe there was a problem with the fuel delivery system amongst other things. Engine was completely redesigned. Not sure of the model years affected, but I had read this originally in the Farm Show newspaper and also heard about it from others. If I remember correctly, the engines were the 6.4 liter and the 7.2 liter (if those numbers sound correct - I may be off).

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dhermesc

03-01-2007 06:18:27




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to nspec, 02-28-2007 18:29:22  
Ford bought back about 50 total units, they never did fix the base problems of the engine and to this day people in the know avoid the early 6.0 engine like the plague. In the end it was Ford customers that bore the brunt of that mess, Ford's attitude was "You should have known better then buy the first year of a new design".



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City-Boy McCoy

02-28-2007 19:07:28




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to nspec, 02-28-2007 18:29:22  
There was not a 7.2. The 6.4 is just coming out now.
The "tried and true" was the 7.3, used from 1988 through mid-2003. This engine was turbo-charged in 1994, and in '95 was dubbed the "Power-stroke". Great engine. In mid 2003, the 6.0 came out. Had some combustion problems due to fuel feed glitches and some software programing. Had some other minor issues as well. By mid-2005 it had become very reliable. Most of the earlier 6.0's were recalled and updated. The engine was not completely redesigned. The 6.4 is just now coming out. Same family as the 6.0. Tremendous power and dual turbo's. Time will tell regarding reliability.

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Thack

02-28-2007 19:34:56




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-28-2007 19:07:28  
A lot of people don't know that GM was courted by IH/Navistar but in 1985 the General decided they would be better off...well that's a long story, but I think Ford and Navistar will part sooner rather than later.



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City-Boy McCoy

03-01-2007 02:41:43




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to Thack, 02-28-2007 19:34:56  
Could be. I have been told that Ford has substantial holdings in Cummins. If true, that ought to be interesting.... mike



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Steven@AZ

03-01-2007 06:02:30




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 03-01-2007 02:41:43  
Ford owned some stock in Cummins at one time, but nowhere near a controlling amount and it has since been sold off. See link.



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CNKS

02-28-2007 18:14:29




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to Steven@AZ, 02-28-2007 17:03:46  
I doubt it, just a dispute that will ultimately be settled. Court has ordered Navistar to continue shipping the engines. See the link. Somehow, I would be more concerned about Ford than Navistar.

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Doug in IL

03-01-2007 00:01:36




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to CNKS, 02-28-2007 18:14:29  
I don't know how much jurisdiction a Michigan court ruling could have on an out of state company. Probably not much.



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Allan In NE

02-28-2007 18:17:56




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to CNKS, 02-28-2007 18:14:29  
Good catch,

Ford is running a bluff. They cannot loose that engine and they know it.

Allan



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Mydeere

02-28-2007 18:21:28




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-28-2007 18:17:56  
Makes you wonder if it isn't a marketing ploy. You know that old "supply and demand" thing. Ironic how it happens just as Ford starts debuting the new '08's!



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Steven@AZ

02-28-2007 18:31:50




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 Re: The true end of IH/Navistar? in reply to Mydeere, 02-28-2007 18:21:28  
Never thought of that marketing scam... it would make sense for Ford to sell trucks at inflated prices (or at least prices that would make them $$ instead of giving them away with major discounts!)



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