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Radiator shutters???What do you think?

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Bill Smith

08-28-2001 21:34:08




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These were really popular I believe back when the tractors had multiple fuel possibility's. 30's, 40's and 50's. I have several distillate or kerosene tractors (H's, M's and F-20's). They are like all the rest and have been run on gas for so long that the duel fuel system's are incomplete. Gas burning manifold's, removed smaller tank and lines, and incomplete shutter assemblies. It seems to me that certain items were commonly taken off and discarded over the years when people just started burning gas all the time. I have not only noticed this on my tractors, but about 80 or 90% of the tractors I see at auctions, shows, parades, tractor pulls, and so on. The tanks and gas lines I have found are relatively easy to find if you look hard enough. A complete working shutter assembly I have found just the opposite. I can't say that I have ever seen a complete one. I have one set of shutters and they are on my F-20 but have no lever to actuate them. I have a shutter controller on my H but no shutters. I have an M that looks like it was equiped with shutters but doesn't have any of the original assembly on it. So here are my qustions.... 1. Does my late 36 model F-20 have shutter capablities or are they not suppose to be on there? 2. Do you guys restoring these tractors put the shutter assemblies back on? 3. Have you guys noticed this thing about not finding shutters on anything? I realize that distillate and kerosene burning is gone by the way side. But if you are going to put a tractor back to mint condition for old time sake wouldn't you want to have a working duel fuel system with the shutters and everything? You will probably just run gas in the big tank anyway but if the notion ever struck you to run it in an original fasion it would be nice to do a demonstration to people that have never been around that. Kind of like firing the old steam engine up. Give me some feed back and share idea's. Just thought I would create a topic that no one seems to discuss.

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Bruce

08-30-2001 18:29:39




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 Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-28-2001 21:34:08  
I have an F20 that used to have the canvas curtain. I'd like to have shutters, but since I have no money, cardboard will have to do.



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43redH

08-30-2001 16:02:03




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 Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-28-2001 21:34:08  
I have sure noticed the lack of shutters as well as other things on these tractors. I recently restored a 43 H back to fabulas shape for keep sake for future generations. I started with a pretty straight tractor but it was missing several items. While going through several salvage yards I found that shutters were the most difficult item to find. After searching high and low I found a set in an automobile salvage yard that happened to have a couple of old tractors. After finding all the parts I needed the fun part was putting the old H back together doing a ground to muffler, hand crank to draw bar tear down and restoration making an H as complete as possible. It has all the extras now. Steel wheels, finders, shutters, duel gas tank and lines, distillate burning manifold, belt pulley, hydraulics, swinging draw bar, hand crank, owners manuel, and the whole ball of wax. I will have to agree with you Bill on tractors at shows and not being complete. I have been to several shows but haven't showed my H. When I assembled it I put it together with storing it in mind. I put a thin coat of thin grease on internal parts to prevent rust and prelubed all bearings and put grease on the seals so they wouldn't be as apt to dry out. Upon completion the tractor was not filled with fluids and has not even fired one lick. It is stored in the corner of my machine shed and without a battery since a battery won't keep well when tractor's are stored. Maybe 10 or 20 years down the road I will stick a battery in and fill with fluids and drive it out of the shed for the first time. Just like it came out of the factory in 1943 (but with all the extras). Maybe by then it will be like you said (like firing up an old steam engine). It will be really fun someday to put those painted red steel lugs into the dirt for the first time since the restoration and try out all the features including those rare shutters. I hope you find a complete set. Just keep looking and keep those eyes open. You seem pretty observant and I'm sure you'll find a set.

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gene b

08-29-2001 19:46:59




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 Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-28-2001 21:34:08  
our new 49M came with shutters were fine in winter as we ground feed almost ever other day when we got a 24mounted picker in 51 took them off for better air flow went back to the gunny sack in winter to warm it up also made heat-houser work better



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Michael Soldan\YOU NEED THEM

08-29-2001 17:11:30




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 Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-28-2001 21:34:08  
Bill, any Farmall of Mc Cormick Deering that had distillate capabilities had to have a set of shutters and a heat shield for the manifold as well as the correct distillate manifold. In restoring my 1944 H's I have opted to make them as original as I can. I found a set of shutters at Portland Indiana last summer and Wade from Cullman Alabama sold me a heat shield he didn't need..so My one H is set up and I will try distillates as an experiment and for the nostalgia. I have my Dad's M amd it has shutters and the heat shield is in my shop..its like new so if a tractor was set up for distillates that's how I will restore it..and yes at shows you see all kinds and I've had to explain to a lot of guys what they have and what they're missing in terms of burning distillates..Good luck finding what you need . Mike in Exeter Ontario

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Charlie

08-29-2001 13:41:33




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 Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-28-2001 21:34:08  
I'd be interested in comments on this but it seemed to me as a kid growing up in the 60's that a lot of farmers wouldn't spend the money on good antifreeze and used the cheaper methanol in their tractor radiators. In warmer weather it tended to over heat and I'm thinking one of the reasons so many shutters are missing is that farmers took them off thinking it would help the air flow and cooling. Any thoughts on this?

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J3nut

08-29-2001 09:20:44




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 Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-28-2001 21:34:08  
I just bought a set of shutters for my 53 Super C. According to the IH parts manual they were an option on gas only Super C's.



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Kenny Christopherson

08-29-2001 11:02:08




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 Re: Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to J3nut, 08-29-2001 09:20:44  
My 1950 C has shutters, abnd it is a gasoline model, and my M was a distilliate a long time ago, and also HAD shutters, but I have a feeling that they are long gone...



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F14

08-29-2001 04:24:46




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 Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-28-2001 21:34:08  
I'm the LAST guy to enlist in the Correct Police, but when I rebuilt my dual fuel 1938 F14, I spent a fair amount of effort (and cash) getting a starting fuel tank made (couldn't find an original that wasn't full of pinholes), adapted some H shutters and fabricated my own linkage.

I'll probably never run distillate in it, but I really like the look of the shutters and the linkage hanging out in the breeze. Also, I almost always run it with the shutters closed, as I never put enough load on it to get the temp guage off the peg otherwise.

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Bob Kerr

08-28-2001 22:06:05




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 Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-28-2001 21:34:08  
If gas prices keep going up through the roof, I wouldn't rule out burning kero in my tractors! I have a 10-20 and an F-12 and both have kero manifolds in good shape. As far as shutters go I do know that every late 30s kero tractor I have seen with shutters also had a water temp gauge.If your F-20 has a temp gauge I bet it also had shutters. The older Internationals had an oil cloth like curtain that was held on the bottom part of the rad with clips. There was another set of clips that would attach in the small holes that run up the sides of the radiator.You just had to feel how much heat was going back into the block on the bottom water elbow. To run kero and not run too cold the Bottom elbow should be just a bit more than luke warm. I just had another thought. I think the shutters were bolted to the radiator sides. If yours had shutters you might find the holes where they had been threaded. I don't think they wasted time threading holes there unless they needed them. The curtains I was talking about are VERY hard to find! I do have a few pics of an original Farmall Regular that still has the curtain on it.If you think you might have had a curtain let me know and I will send you the pics so possibly you can make one. Last year when I ran my 10-20 on kero I just threw a rag over the bottom of the radiator and that kept the heat up a bit.A cool water jacket will help condense the kero in the cylinders and it will thin the oil so you will have to drain the oil to the middle check cock in the morning before you run it. of course fill the pan back up to the top check cock with fresh oil.

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Bill Smith

08-29-2001 16:33:43




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 Re: Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bob Kerr, 08-28-2001 22:06:05  
When I restored my F-20 I had trouble with radiator to start out with. It leaked and was really rusted out in the caste iron case. I also twisted off several bolts in the disassembly process. It did not have shutters on it but had holes in the caste iron sides that went clear through (4 I think, 2 on each side). I knew where some F-20's were that were ditched and so I went on a parts hunt. I found that these radiators were like mine and had these holes in the caste iron sides. These radiators were on 37's and 38's and mine is a 36. The better radiator had shutters that was bolted on the front of the radiator and had bolts that went clear through the caste iron sides and had nuts on the other end. I thought, why not put the radiator and shutters both on my tractor. The only difference that I could see was that the newer radiators had a little nub sticking up about an 1/8 of an inch on the top. Other than that it looked identicle. I put it on my 36 and it fit real nice except the hood bolt holes were not perfectly matched up and it was a bear cat trying to get the hood bolts in. My tractor didn't have a heat guage but the one that originally had the radiator with shutters did, but I didn't add the guage to mine. The shutters looked original and didn't look tampered with. They even don't go clear to the bottom of radiator becuase the turning brake actuator on the steering column don't allow the room to go clear to the bottom. They stop about 2 or 3 inches from bottom. The parts tractor just had the shutters and no actuater, so no actuater on mine either. Do you think my shutters are original F-20 shutters and for a 36 as well as newer models? Is this little nub on top a marker for maybe a different caste iron radiator top casting explanning the hole mis match up with hood? This little nub has absolutely no purpose that I can see but I have noticed that earlier models are missing the nub. I don't remember if it is centered but I think it is off to the side. The original actuater for these shutters I believe was very simple and was confined to small area at top corner of radiator. I am not really clear on this though since I haven't seen one. Help me with some details if you can and thanks for your post and in advance for any future ones.

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Dick (IL)

08-31-2001 09:36:59




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 Re: Re: Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-29-2001 16:33:43  
Late '38 and all 39 F-20s had shutters, until then a canvas roll up curtin was used. All those little nubs and knobs seen on casting - if they aren't drilled and tapped, they most likeley were locaters used in the various machining processes needed to produce those parts.



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Farmer Bob

08-28-2001 21:43:23




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 Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Bill Smith, 08-28-2001 21:34:08  
Bill, I'm presently working on a '51 Super C. It is strickly gas only but it has shutters and they are very complete, right down to the actuator rod and notched lever. They even work!! I have taken them off during the engine work I'm doing but those pups are going back on in total. I thought it kind of funny to find them on this tractor being total gas. Maybe they were trying to get rid of an overstock. Any other opinions?//FB

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Dave T

08-29-2001 07:56:24




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 Re: Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Farmer Bob, 08-28-2001 21:43:23  
My '52 Super C has them also. According to Guy Fayes Data Book, the shutters were offered as an option. Mine work perfect too...



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Nyles Crawford

08-28-2001 22:03:57




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 Re: Re: radiator shutters???What do you think? in reply to Farmer Bob, 08-28-2001 21:43:23  
Bill, I have a '49 Super A that is strictly gas. It also has the radiator shutters that work. I guess it's quicker & easier just to close the shutters in wintertime than finding a piece of cardboard for the grill.



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