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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Deere 450 track loader won't move

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andy b.

08-14-2004 13:32:17




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a neighbor has a 450 track loader for sale. he was using it one day and it just quit moving. no loud clunking and banging. no exploding gearboxes. no fluid running all over. it was moving and just stopped. the engine runs fine and from all outward appearances, it looks like it should move, but it doesn't. any ideas? i heard a rumor there was a pin of some sort in the driveline someplace that could shear off and prevent the crawler from moving. does anyone know if this could be true and where to check for this problem? i'm just wondering what the range of possible causes could be from cheapest to most expensive. the fact it didn't sound like something blew up somewhere leads me to believe it must be some simple thing that no one ever checks. are the clutches known for just all of a sudden failing?

any tips or advice is appreciated.

andy b.

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DGH

08-15-2004 21:20:34




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 Re: Deere 450 track loader won't move in reply to andy b., 08-14-2004 13:32:17  
With the HLR transmission there is an engine disconect clutch which disengages on the 2nd half of the clutch pedal travel. We replaced the clutch disc on our 450 several time over the years, the spring setup in the centre of the disc comes apart from the constant shock from the shifting the transmission. When they go no noise just no drive. Engine most come out to replace.



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Dozerboss

08-16-2004 13:45:51




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 Re: Deere 450 track loader won't move in reply to DGH, 08-15-2004 21:20:34  
I haven't seen that one....yet. Are those the springs that are in the clutch disc center or the springs in the pressure plate? Thanks.



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DGH

08-18-2004 16:36:27




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 Re: Deere 450 track loader won't move in reply to Dozerboss, 08-16-2004 13:45:51  
It is the springs in the center of the clutch disc that breakup, then the splined hub separates fron the rest of the disc and no drive is the result!



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Dozerboss

08-18-2004 20:38:18




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 Re: Deere 450 track loader won't move in reply to DGH, 08-18-2004 16:36:27  
Now i know why JD has a new clutch and pressure plate kit out.



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andy b.

08-16-2004 05:33:51




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 Re: Deere 450 track loader won't move in reply to DGH, 08-15-2004 21:20:34  
first, yes, it is the HLR transmission. second, i was kind of thinking it was a clutch. if the engine needs to come out, i see why the cost to pay someone to do it would be excessive. i don't see any easy way to split the machine without access to some other large machine.

so who has ever split one of these with the loader on and no crane available? can it be done by several fit men and a lot of ingenuity????
:-)

andy b.

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Dozerboss

08-16-2004 13:43:10




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 Re: Deere 450 track loader won't move in reply to andy b., 08-16-2004 05:33:51  
Haven't done a loader, but you can do a dozer with just an engine hoist and plywood for it to roll back on if you have to. That is if you just need To replace a clutch. You actually just need to move the eng forward enough for work room. I have replaced the clutch without removing the engine from the frame. Since this machine runs you should be able to lift the bucket up out of your way and support it with timber. Remove the hood/exhaust. Remove the hard nose with 2 men, than the radiator, then the engine can come out and forward enough with a hoist. You should get a shop book, i know i am skipping components you will need to disconnect along the way such as the HLR lines/filter in the hard nose. Point is, if you can replace a car engine you can do this job too and a shop manual will guide you right thru it, including rebleeding the fuel system. One mistake that i have seen done is trying to draw the eng and clutch housing back together with the bolts. This will bend the clutch disc. Use a clutch alignment tool and mate the splines of the input shaft to the clutch disc properly. When it is right, you will be able to push the engine and clutch housing together on the dowel pins. If you cannot get on the dowel pins then you are out of alignment and need to back out and move the input shaft and try again. Do not use the bolts to pull them together. When it is right and together, you will be able to hand thread the clutch housing bolts back into the engine. I once got stuck with a clutch disc that was bent by pulling the engine and clutch housing together with the bolts. It was no good as a core, being bent, so it cost $140 extra core charge. Get a shop manual and you'll be fine.

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PD Mechanical

08-15-2004 06:11:25




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 Re: Deere 450 track loader won't move in reply to andy b., 08-14-2004 13:32:17  
third party image

The 350"s had a shaft coupling that the splines would tear out of, but nothing like that on a 450. There is however a noted problem with many 450"s. Under the floor boards and under the left hand rubber plug in the clutch housing, there is an adjusting nut. Takes a 1/2" deep socket. This nut has been noted for backing off and even falling off. This will cause the crawler to be very sluggish and or not move. There are of course many other things to look for. Dozerboss has covered most of them. One more thing is to check the trans. suction screen in the right hand side of trans. case just ahead of the final drive. It is a cover with 3 bolts and a temp. sending unit in it. Be sure to drain the oil before removing cover or you"ll be in for a bath.

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Dozerboss

08-14-2004 15:12:04




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 Re: Deere 450 track loader won't move in reply to andy b., 08-14-2004 13:32:17  
Trouble could be anywhere from engine back. I can give you basic help, but don't know what tranny you have. If it has the HLR transmission, you can pull the floor boards and remove the rubber plugs in the top of the transmission. Then you can see if the engine clutch and pressure plate are engageing and turning. It can also be checked with a pressure gauge to determine oil pressure-obviously if it has pressure the drivetrain is turning the transmission shaft and pump. Other simple checks are the shift linkage, did the pin come out? Are the shift levers frozen together or do they move independantly? If frozen together they won't catch any gear. (Yes believe it or not a steel shaft will rust tight in a bronze bushing and lock them together) That seems unlikely if the loader was being operated. I have seen it on machines that sit.

Once i looked at one that wouldn't move in 4 high or any gear on a small incline. The engine clutch was so worn it wouldn't get out of its own way. That was easy to tell, no free play adjustment left on the clutch pedal. The HLR can also be checked with a pressure gauge to determine oil pressure--you should have a shop manual, and has a pressure adjustment for engagement. If it's a constant mesh trans you could have linkage, clutch or gear failure. An HLR---linkage, clutch, pump or seals as well as gears. Then there's the final drives, haven't been there. Some crawler's have a brake lock on the pedal any chance that is engaged?

As far as i know there are no shear pins on a crawler, If i'm wrong someone please correct me. Everything is heavy duty. Deere even uses grade 8 bolts on the tool box. I hope this gives you a starting point.

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Roy

08-15-2004 20:36:55




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 Re: Deere 450 track loader won't move in reply to Dozerboss, 08-14-2004 15:12:04  
Horendous loud banging noise then no drive reminds me of a 450 that was rented to a local Reverend at his church..He was riding the clutch pedal slightly and caused the ring and pinion to fail because of extremely agressive shifting.. I got that job... nothing but two frame rails standing where the rest of the machine should have been..Pull the top cover off directly under seat in the center section, you will be able to see the ring gear for damage. Or possibly a countershaft in the HLR transmission..

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