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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Case 450 Torque Converter problems

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Beaker

01-31-2004 15:37:29




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I have a nice Case 450. Total service 13 hrs ago. All fluids and filters. Today I experienced sudden tranmission pressure loss. I was pushing downhill. I was able to get the crawler back to level ground but noticed a sqeaking noise from under the seat. I checked all fluids for contamination, pulled suction and pressure filters, everything looks perfect. It appears I can make up to normal transmission pressure but the dozer does not respond normally. (pressure is also intermittent) If I set still in nuetral the noise is louder. If I move foward or reverse the noise stops for a moment then slowly returns. Am I sucking air or has my torque converter failed. Help! OH YEAH I a pretty good mechanic so any advice will help. Thanks.

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Max

02-03-2004 20:35:32




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 Re: Case 450 Torque Converter problems in reply to Beaker, 01-31-2004 15:37:29  
It sounds like you may have problems with the transmission releif valve, located on the transmission control valve. The pressure on the transmission should be between 225-260 psi. The torque convertor relief valve is set at 35-55 psi. These transmissions also had a reputation of separating the layers in the suction hose so that the suction flow to the pump would be restricted. This is checked by testing the pressures of the trans and torque convertor or drain and inspect the hose. The power flow through the transmission from the drive shaft goes through the high/low range box, forward/reverse clutch packs and then upward to the hi/lo track speed clutch packs then out to the tracks.

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Bob Bauer

02-12-2004 13:13:37




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 Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Converter problems in reply to Max, 02-03-2004 20:35:32  
Hey Max, please email me at bobb@coastal-foods.com if you have any ideas on the following: My cousin has a late 60's Case 450 dozer. A couple of months ago, he was using it, it was working fine when he shut it off. He started it a few days later, moved the shift levers to put it in gear to move the dozer, and nothing happens. It won't go into gear. Fluid level is fine, he changed the filters just in case, yet it still won't go into gear. He took the floor plate off and noticed that the drive line isn't spinning. Any ideas? Thanks, Bob Bauer

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marlowe

01-31-2004 17:27:35




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 Re: Case 450 Torque Converter problems in reply to Beaker, 01-31-2004 15:37:29  
when you put it in gear does your drive shaft turn? and how were you stearing if foot or hand? did you try shifting the high low lever on the floor ?



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Beaker

01-31-2004 17:54:00




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 Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Converter problems in reply to marlowe, 01-31-2004 17:27:35  
Yes the drive shaft is turning, The dozer will still pull itself and turn using the hand levers. Brakes don't work unless they just started on their own. However, it sort of feels like an automatic trnsmission slipping, sorta. Yes I moved the H/L lever and both ranges appeared to work normally. Something is not right but this is my first dozer so I'm learning. The only thing I haven't been thru is the tranny. I feel very good about the rest of the dozer. A week ago I worked the dozer about 8 hours hard. No problems. The fluids in this dozer are so clean you can't see them. (except engine oil of course) When I dropped the old fluids, I inspected all of them for water, metal, or any contaminate. They were very clean. I really felt I had found a well cared for piece of equipment. All signs are this is a very good machine except for today. I have owned the machine about six months.

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marlowe

01-31-2004 18:51:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Converter problems in reply to Beaker, 01-31-2004 17:54:00  
i will check the service manule and get back to you sone time monday or tue. dose it work after it cools off?



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Bob Bauer

02-12-2004 13:04:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Converter problems in reply to marlowe, 01-31-2004 18:51:31  
Hey marlowe, please email me at bobb@coastal-foods.com if you have any ideas on the following: My cousin has a late 60's Case 450 dozer. A couple of months ago, he was using it, it was working fine when he shut it off. He started it a few days later, moved the shift levers to put it in gear to move the dozer, and nothing happens. It won't go into gear. Fluid level is fine, he changed the filters just in case, yet it still won't go into gear. He took the floor plate off and noticed that the drive line isn't spinning. Any ideas? Thanks, Bob Bauer

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beaker

01-31-2004 19:02:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Converter problems in reply to marlowe, 01-31-2004 18:51:31  
Don't know yet. Will try on Sunday and let you know. Thanks so much for your help!



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marlowe

01-31-2004 19:36:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Converter prob in reply to beaker, 01-31-2004 19:02:19  
THANKS but i have not helped you yet but will do my best. i have 3 450s and have never had any TC or trans truble with any of mine.do you have any new oil leaks since this started?. if your working in brush you might have poked a hole in your suction in to the charge pump or it just wore trough this has happened to two of mine but then you should have a leak on the right side



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Beaker

02-01-2004 13:49:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Converter in reply to marlowe, 01-31-2004 19:36:42  
No new leaks. Yes I was working in brush and I have knocked lines off of the rear pump/valve housing and caused the dozer to stop moving. As a matter of fact that is exactly what I thought happened this time. The noise is louder cold than hot. I listened closly today and the noise is loud and comming from the TQ housing. The drive shaft is turning even when the dozer is in nuetral. Upon close inspection I found a hyd line that enters directly above the drive shaft. This line has a rubber patch at the housing fitting. The rubber has broken down and the fitting is so loose you can spin it with your fingers. It does not appear to be leaking badly but could certainly leak air. I have yet to inspect the lines under the dozer. The noise sounds like a hyd pump starving for fluid. It appears the charge pump outputs to a tee on the top of the control valve. The other side of the tee goes to the pressure side filter. (I think) I am planning to remove the output side of the charge pump and see if I have good flow from the charge pump. I am going to drop the tranny fluid and inspect. The noise is so profound I am almost certain the TQ internal pump has failed. However it still makes enough pressure to move the dozer. I hope I am wrong. I need this little jewel to run all year trouble free. I am trying to locate a service manual. Any ideas?

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Mike

02-28-2004 19:09:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Conver in reply to Beaker, 02-01-2004 13:49:28  
I have this manual and many more Case equipment manuals. Please email me back for details or visit my web page. The manual would cost $215. Click below. Thanks, Mike



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Beaker

02-01-2004 14:19:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Conver in reply to Beaker, 02-01-2004 13:49:28  
OK! Hold the horses. I got my parts manual out and now I think I don't know where the TQ is located. I was assuming the TQ is inside the transmission housing. Is this correct? Also I now see the return (pressure side) from the charge pump is the line that is loose with the bad rubber coupling. Man I need a theory of operation manual not a service manual. okay now am confused.



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Beaker

02-01-2004 14:43:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Torque Co in reply to Beaker, 02-01-2004 14:19:11  
Help! The noise is comming from the tranny not the TQ. OK I'm dumb, so what else is new. What sqeaks in tranny when the dozer is just idling?



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marlowe

02-01-2004 19:56:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Torqu in reply to Beaker, 02-01-2004 14:43:42  
your TC is right on the back of the engine in the bell housing then its your drive shaft then trans.



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Beaker

02-02-2004 09:12:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 T in reply to marlowe, 02-01-2004 19:56:08  
Yeah I got the TQ figured out. I don't think there is a problem with the TQ. Squeak is comming from transmiision and I suspect the TQ fluid flow to the tranny has been reduced. Too wet to work on today. I am going to rent a steam cleaner and clean the transmission and lines. I think this will help me inspect for wear damage on the lines and possible leaks. I believe there may be a poblem with the intake line. Is it normal for the tranny to squeal at idle if the machine is sucking air? The noise sure sounds like a hydraulic pump starving for fluid.

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marlowe

02-02-2004 16:14:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 4 in reply to Beaker, 02-02-2004 09:12:30  
one thing do you have or did it have a back hoe on it or are there hyd. lines out the back that have a quick coupler? check this if they are plug togeather as they should be



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Beaker

02-02-2004 16:25:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ca in reply to marlowe, 02-02-2004 16:14:02  
As far as I can tell there are no remote hydralics. It appears that this machine is an old US Forestry dozer. It looks like it was set up to tow. The only rear item is a drawbar.



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beaker

02-09-2004 18:24:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to Beaker, 02-02-2004 16:25:36  
Thanks to Marlowe for steering me in the right direction. TQ is fine, squealing sound in transmission is caused from low flow from charge pump. The tranny is undamaged. I replaced the intake line to the charge pump. The entire line both rubber hoses and the metal tube. Also replaced the 5/8 id sump return hose at the top of the drive shaft. Dozer is close to perfect. I need to do some brake work and I will have one of the best 450s around. Thanks folks for a very good forum.

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