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Case Tractors Discussion Forum

Synchronized vs. Non Synchronized Transmission??

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'53 VAI Guy

04-03-2006 07:03:19

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Gentlemen, I have a '53 VAI. I was recently watching a tractor program on RFDTV (great farming channel by the way) and was introduced to the idea of being able to shift some tractors while they are in motion. I merely assumed that my tractor should be stopped before shifting (just like my father used to do with his Massey Pacer). Does anybody know for sure what type of transmissions are on the Case VAI?? Apparently there is Synchronized, Semi Synchronized, and Non Synchronized. Thanks.

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04-03-2006 18:16:09

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 Semi-synchronized ?? in reply to '53 VAI Guy, 04-03-2006 07:03:19  
I know there are no synchronizers in my VA,VAH or VACs. They all shift fine, and double-clutching isn't necessary. It's just a matter of proper timing and knowing when to shift. When I was a teenager, I drove several gas-powered road tractor-trailers for a moving company - Brockways. They were the same way and often needed double-clutching. In regard to a "semi-synchronized", I don't know what that is. A syncrhonized transmisson, by nature of design, is usually weaker than a non-synchro. That because a non-synchro uses sliding gears that come in or out of mesh when you shift. That's why they clash unless you time things right, and make sure they are turning the same speeds when you shift - so the teeth slide together instead of fighting each other. A synchronized transmission is usually referred to as a Constant-Mesh trans - that because the gears never move when you shift. There are lock collars that are secured to a shaft - and have small teeth that lock on to a gear when you shift. So, you are actually shifting the lock-collars, not the gears. Along with that, there is usually some sort of clutch - disk or brass cones - that makes the lock-collars turn the same speed as the end of the gear they need to lock on to. These are the synchro-clutches. Usually, these synchronizer lock collars have small teeth and nowhere near the surface-area of a sliding-gear - that's why they are not usually as strong. But nowadays, seems they've gotten beefed up a bit along with better alloy-steels since just about everything seems to be synchronized. There are some "in-between" transmissions that do NOT use sliding gears, but have sliding lock-collars instead - but NO synchronizers. Deere for example, called this their "collar shift" or CSS transmission. Maybe this is what you are calling a "semi-synchronized" trans.?

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Walt Davies

04-03-2006 10:10:12

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 Re: Synchronized vs. Non Synchronized Transmissio in reply to '53 VAI Guy, 04-03-2006 07:03:19  
You can double clutch any of them and shift on the go, it take a little practice but I never stop any of my tractors to shift up or down.
If you ever ownoed an early 30,40 or 50s pickup with a 4 speed tranny you would konw how to do this.

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04-04-2006 06:34:27

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 Re: Synchronized vs. Non Synchronized Transmissio in reply to Walt Davies, 04-03-2006 10:10:12  
I drove guite a few 50s road-tractors and this discussion would have seemed silly then - since none of them had synchros and most required constant split-shifting - it was just part of driving like turning the steering wheel. If I was used to a certain truck, I rarely had to double-clutch except with a few old Brockways. But - in regard to any tractor shifting well if done right - there are a few dogs that are just about impossible to shift on the go without some clash. One example is the collar-shift CSS trans. that Deere used in their industrial 2010 wheel tractors. Even when new, they would clash even with the most experienced operator - and would get worse over time since every gear-clash would flatten the engagement teeth on the shift collars.

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Paul In ON

04-03-2006 11:08:25

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 Re: Synchronized vs. Non Synchronized Transmissio in reply to Walt Davies, 04-03-2006 10:10:12  
How about a Case 430? By double clutch do you mean the physical clutch or is it a term? Paul

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John Saeli

04-03-2006 10:31:06

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 Re: Synchronized vs. Non Synchronized Transmissio in reply to Walt Davies, 04-03-2006 10:10:12  
Hey Walt: Some guys would argue with you, but from 1 ol'e gear-jammer to another, you're rite on 100%. Our kids could double-clutch before they could walk. Well, almost....

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Walt Davies

04-03-2006 20:30:23

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 Re: Synchronized vs. Non Synchronized Transmissio in reply to John Saeli, 04-03-2006 10:31:06  
Thanks John I needed that. after all the "H" I get on another list its nice to know someone out there agrees with me.
thanks again

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