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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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Generator Queston

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SC Dan

08-22-2005 16:09:09




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I have a '49 SC, when I bought it last month the generator was not charging the battery. So I put a used generator on it the other day, and I replaced the ammeter, as well as re-wired the whole tractor. Still not charging. I tried two different used voltage regulators, still not showing any deflection on the meter when it's running, so I assume it is still not charging. Can anyone tell me how I can check the generator and voltage regulator to tell if they are good? Also, I read somewhere about needing to polarize something when you install it? Any help?

Dan

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John T

08-23-2005 07:29:32




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 Re: Generator Queston in reply to SC Dan, 08-22-2005 16:09:09  
Dan, Im familiar with the Delco Class A charging systems but not experienced with your particular tractor or its wiring, so the advice below may or may not help but likely will if you have a Class A system that uses a full fledged 3 or 4 wire Voltage Regulator versus the older 2 wire cutout relays that used the light switch type of Field current regulation. Consider this advice as generic in nature.

ARE YOU SURE THE AMMETER IS WIRED CORRECT AND WORKS????? If you turn the lights or ignition on (if coil ignition not a mag) when shes not running, the ammeter should swing over to the - discharge direction, does yours??? Are BOTH the ammeter terminals reading hot battery voltage?? They should !!!!! !

To Polarize the Generator, first temporarily dead ground the Gens Field post to case/frame, then momentarily flash jump a wire from the VR's BAT terminal over to its GEN (or ARM) terminal and you ought to get a small spark. Sames things accomplished by momentarily flash jumping a hot wire (BAT on VR or starter post etc) direct to the Gens ARM post to get the spark.

TROUBLESHOOTING A CHARGING PROBLEM IN CLASS A DELCO TYPE SYSTEMS

1) For a good working Gen to get to and charge the battery, it has to have a path usually from the Gens ARM post output,,,,, ,,,,,to and through the cutout relay portion of the VR (between its ARM and BAT terminals),,,,, ,,,up to the Load (NOT to battery) side of the Ammeter,,,,, ,,,to and through the ammeter,,,,, ,,,,from BAT side of ammeter to ungrounded battery post, often via the starter lug post. Is yours wired that way or equivalent ??? The ammeter should read hot battery voltage on BOTH terminals, does yours??? Even if an ammeter were stuck (but still continuous) as RPM increases the battery voltage should rise from 12.6 to near 14 volts and/or the lights glow brighter (half that on 6 volt systems). Have you tried that in case the ammeter isnt working right????? ?

2) If the above is so, the BAT terminal on the VR MUST ALWAYS READ HOT BATTERY VOLTAGE. Does yours??? If not, the Gen cant get to and charge the battery.

3) The Gen to VR wiring is as follows:

BAT on VR to ammeters load (NOT battery) side

ARM (or GEN) on VR to Gens Armature post.

FLD on VR to Gens Field post.

(L) Load (if you have a 4 wire VR) up to BAT supply input terminal on switch to feed loads like lights and ingition.

4. THE GEN AND VR MUST BE WELL GROUNDED AND THE BELT GOOD N TIGHT. If any doubt, run a ground wire from the grounded battery post or clean solid frame member direct to the Gen and see what happens????? ????? ????? ????? ????

NOW, if the Gen and VR are grounded,,,,,all is wired correct,,,,, ,,BAT terminal on VR is HOT,,,,, ,,Belt is tight,,,,, ,,,ammeter is good n continuous n works but she wont charge, have you had the batteries tested lately????? Is there electrolyte above all the plates and no cells have a gray or milky appearance????? A bad battery may not accept a charge you know!!!!! !! If she dont, proceed below to see if its a Gen or VR problem (AFTER you have insured the wiring per the above)

TO DETERMINE IF ITS A GEN OR VR PROBLEM

5. With the tractor running, temporarily ground the Gens Field post to case. If she charges then, the VR may be bad, or a wires missing from VR's Field post to the Field terminal on the VR, or the VR isnt well grounded.

6. If she still dont charge, leave Field grounded and jump a wire across from the VR's BAT and ARM terminals (jump by passes the cutout relay) and see if she charges. If then but not otherwise, the VR's cutout relay isnt working correct (maybe points burned/carboned/resistive)

7. With the 2 steps above, you have basically by passed the VR functions, so if she still dont charge, you're left with a bad battery or wiring or the Gen itself.

8. MOTOR TEST. You can Motor test the Gen. If its grounded and you remove the belt and apply hot battery voltage direct to its ARM Post, it should motor n run well (Armature n Brushes and Commutator okay). Then, if you ground the Field and it slows down some, the Fileds probably good. If it passes both those tests, it should charge, and if not, it may be a wirign or battery or grounding problem. The hot battery voltage may be taken off the VR's BAT terminal or the starter post or the battery itself for thois test.

9. Typical Gen problems may be the brushes are worn down or the hold down spring assemblies are stuck/corroded/dirty and arent pushing the brushes tight down against the commutator. Check those things out. Worse may be bad fields or armature etc. Air and WD 40 etc can clean and free them, the hold downs must be free n snap and hold the brushes DOWN TIGHT.

SUMMARY: Check the wiring,,,,,the grounds,,,,, insure BAT on VR is hot,,,,, ,check battery (maybe load tested and Specific Gravity checked),,,,, ,,,good tight belt,,,,, ,insure ammeter is continuous (BOTH sides HOT),,,,, see if battery voltage rises above 12.6 and/or light glow brighter,,,,, ,,,do the Field and cutout relay VR by pass checks,,,,, ,,insure the Gens brushes arent worn down and the hold down springs are free n clean and push the brushes down tight,,,,, ,,,,,check the connections,,,,, ,,,try the Gen Motor Test to see if its good.

You may just have a bad battery or bad ground or connection if you say the Gen and VR are okay. Good Luck n God Bless, let us all know.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer who usually lurks over on the Mother Deere pages instead of over here on the "dark side" lol

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Paul in Vernon

08-31-2005 08:24:37




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 Re: Generator Queston in reply to John T, 08-23-2005 07:29:32  
Hi Guys,

Excellent info !!! Thanks!

One quick question though, when you flash the gen, do you do it while the engine is running, i.e. gen is turning, or do you do it with the engine off?

Thanks again!

Paul....deperatley trying to fix a JD 710 charging system before winter.



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Larry Martin

08-22-2005 18:33:37




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 Re: Generator Queston in reply to SC Dan, 08-22-2005 16:09:09  
Go to the Farmall Board and search the Archives for Bob M.'s articles and wiring diagrams for electric systems. He has a flow chart check list for generators that is excellent and the wiring diagrams will apply to your SC also.



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SC Dan

08-23-2005 19:18:51




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 Re: Generator Queston in reply to Larry Martin, 08-22-2005 18:33:37  
Both replies are a gold mine of info! Thank you, much appreciated.

Dan



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