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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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hot tanking 188 diesel with liners in place

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BKahler

01-25-2005 16:50:26




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I'm smack in the middle of a budget minded rebuild on my 188 diesel (yeah I know budget goes out the door when rebuilding!). Anyway, I had originally planned on just having the machine shop do a slight hone job on the cylinders, throw new rings in and put it back together. Well last night I found that the rear cam bearing has slipped halfway out of its pocket and as a result was somewhat hammered by the rear lifter.

Now that I know I have to replace the rear cam bearing I'm wondering if I hadn't aught to just go ahead and have the block hot tanked. The question is will this affect the liners in anyway? In other words will they stay in place? First time I've worked on a diesel so this is all new to me.

Thanks,

Brad

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george md

01-25-2005 17:06:56




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 Re: hot tanking 188 diesel with liners in place in reply to BKahler, 01-25-2005 16:50:26  
BKahler,
Thak them out for two reasons , 1- to put new
liner orings on them , 2- with them out you can do a much better job of cleaning the rust and sludge from inside the block.

Orings are not a big budget item , several
dollars a hole and no problem to get them .

george



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BKahler

01-25-2005 17:25:25




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 Re: hot tanking 188 diesel with liners in place in reply to george md, 01-25-2005 17:06:56  
Thanks for the quick reply. I didn't realize there were o'rings under the liners. I've got a parts manual on order but still haven't managed to come up with a shop manual for my 530CK. The factory manuals and even the repros are just to expensive for my tastes.

This is truely a budget rebuild but I think I can afford the o'rings!

Any tips or tricks on getting the liners out undamaged? I know I would want to mark them as to which cylinder they were and their location/orientation in the block.

Anything other little hidden gotchas I should worry about?

Thanks

Brad

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jdemaris

01-26-2005 06:55:06




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 Re: hot tanking 188 diesel with liners in place in reply to BKahler, 01-25-2005 17:25:25  
Considering you're on a tight budget - I'm still assuming you don't want to throw your money away. Besides replacing the seals on the sleeves, you'd better check the side clearance on the piston rings, especially the top rings. You can easily do it with a feeler gauge. If it is excessive, you're wasting your money by just installing new rings. In most cases, the pistons can be repaired, if needed, with about $10 in parts. Hastings makes the repair shims. But, you'd need to find someone to recut the grooves for you. A local machinist did mine for a total of $35 (for four pistons). Rebuilding pistons used to be standard procedure, but then parts got cheap and machine shop costs got high, so such rebuilding was not worth the effort anymore. Many shops used to knurl piston skirts, reclaim grooves, install oversize pins, etc. - but it's almost become a lost art. Just at the time when parts prices are hitting the roof and it's now, worth the effort to salvage original parts.

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george md

01-26-2005 08:14:13




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 Re: hot tanking 188 diesel with liners in place in reply to jdemaris, 01-26-2005 06:55:06  
Jdemaris, I would agree, I have a GI tool , handy item.

george



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BKahler

01-26-2005 17:16:38




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 Re: hot tanking 188 diesel with liners in place in reply to george md, 01-26-2005 08:14:13  
George & jdemaris,

Thanks for the replies. I dropped the block off at the machine shop. The liners measure out ok for doing a hone only. The insides of the engine with the exception of a couple of items I'll bring next looked pretty good. It appears there was a rebuild done on the engine not all that long before I got it. I think the reason it spun a rod bearing (#1) was because the rear cam bearing was only halfway installed, effectively blocking oil flow through that point. That caused the lifter to crush part of the bearing itself. It didn't look like the cam bearing spun, just not installed right.

The pistons look fairly new and are in good shape overall. I might look into knurling to see if they can do it. It turns out the NAPA store close to me has an excellent machine shop and reputation.

Thats the good news, the bad news is the #1 rod journal is at least .040" smaller in diameter than any of the others. So this crank is ruined unless something like the metal spray that George does or welding up the journal would work.

I'm now looking for advice on how to salvage the crank or barring that find the best (meaning cheapest) source I can for a different crank. This is a 188 diesel with I believe the smaller diameter liners if that makes any difference.

Any and all advice appreciated. Other than selling the tractor!

You can see pictures of the rebuild on our website. Just look for the 63 case backhoe link on the left side.

Thanks

Brad

PS, looking at our "projects" will give you an idea as to why this has to be a budget rebuild!

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jdemaris

01-26-2005 18:53:09




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 Re: hot tanking 188 diesel with liners in place in reply to BKahler, 01-26-2005 17:16:38  
It depends on what you can find or get done. As far as spray-welding goes, we had many cranks done that way, some in over 200 horsepower applications, and none ever failed that I know of. You've got an interesting collection there. I used to collect Rootes Group cars from Great Britan, but also had several Simcas, an Isetta (with the BMW motorcylce engine), several TR-250s, a GT-6 with a Chevy V-8, and a couple of rusty Amphicars (with Triumph engines). I used to have a little British car with a Royal Enfield 2 cylinder motorcycle engine in it, but can't remember the make.

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george md

01-25-2005 20:56:08




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 Re: hot tanking 188 diesel with liners in place in reply to BKahler, 01-25-2005 17:25:25  
Brad,

You really should measure the liners with a mic
to make sure they are within limits before you put the work in them. If they are in limit , then hone them before you remove from block. click the link below , it will take you to a site
the email is in the site . I can copy and email
a few pages from the service manual.

george

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