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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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Case 500 has a dead cylinder

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Walter

09-04-2004 14:06:18




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I have a rebuilt injector pump and 6 new injectors. #3 cylinder is cold(warm)and fuel is coming out of the exhaust manifold. Tractor also smokes like a freight train. I don't know where to look next. Is this a powrcel problem? How do I check compression on a diesel?




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Kelly MT

09-05-2004 08:28:17




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Walter , 09-04-2004 14:06:18  
I had the same problem last winter with my 500. I had just replaced the freez plugs and required new head gaskets. Same thing you had raw fuel out the exhaust. I wondered about the power cells also. We lost power for a few days and I hooked the 500 up to our 25KW gen set. I put a strong mix of Power Services in the fuel and ran it at PTO speed under load. After four hours the smoke started to slow down. After ten hours, no smoke and hitting strong on all six. The engine runs strong and clean now even with lite work. I suspect the power cell was carboned up. PK

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Billpa

09-05-2004 07:12:41




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Walter , 09-04-2004 14:06:18  

Make an adapter for an air hose put it on the head turn the engine to the bottom of the power stroke or loosen the valves all the way for that cylinder and hook the charged air line to it and listen where the air is comming from ,exhaust,intake, or the crankcase.take it from there.



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Walter

09-06-2004 19:04:59




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Billpa, 09-05-2004 07:12:41  
Good idea I'll try that.



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Doc Larry

09-04-2004 17:26:13




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Walter , 09-04-2004 14:06:18  
I think I would swap the #3 injector with one of the others just to make sure you didn"t get a bad injector. Was the condition of the engine before the injector and pump rebuild?

Larry



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Walter

09-04-2004 18:41:45




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Doc Larry, 09-04-2004 17:26:13  
Don't know the condition just obtained the tractor. Actualy it ran about the same but pump rebuild was done because it was putting diesel in the crankcase. After that it still was missing and smoking so we rebuilt the injectors. Still missing and smoking. Don't know what the compression is but it sems good as I have to use the decompression lever to turn over. Starts good and then has puffs of white smoke until it gets hot. Then just smokes blue to black and one dead cylinder.

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Doc Larry

09-04-2004 19:49:28




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Walter , 09-04-2004 18:41:45  
Walter,

This is apparently the same engine that had (has?) the pushrod oiling problem in a thread down the page. Was the valve lash way out of adjustment when you got this? Was the oiling problem present when you bought this, or after some work had been done? 15 lbs at anything other than hot low idle is pretty low pressure.

Without knowing the history, it's very difficult to eliminate anything at this point, because God only knows what the last guy might have done....

Fuel coming out the manifold and fuel in the oil are from a non-firing cylinder(s?), which you already know is #3, and probably NOT an injector problem now that we know you had the problem before and the injectors have been rebuilt. Insufficient oil to the head could cause major valve problems very quickly. I think I would do a compression check or just go ahead and pull the head off #3 and take look.

Good luck.

Larry

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Walter

09-04-2004 19:59:29




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Doc Larry, 09-04-2004 19:49:28  
Oiling problem is on the first head,,, cylinders #1&2. This one seems to be oiling good. Oil pressure is 20lbs at idle and 35 full throttle. How do you check compression? I assume you pull the injector,but then what, is it threaded? When we set the valves for correct clearance this cylinder runs worse.When we tighten the clearance it will get a little warm.



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Doc Larry

09-04-2004 20:32:00




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Walter , 09-04-2004 19:59:29  
Walter,

This helps. Oil pressure is ok.

To check compression, you will need either a special adapter to insert into the injector opening, or you can make one from a bad injector - remove the innards then braze a fitting onto the external side that you can hook to a compression gage.

Curious that decreasing the valve clearance may help compression - both valves have this effect? The only thing I can think of offhand that would cause that is a flat cam, but something may come to me in a dream later on.....

Larry

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Walter

09-05-2004 04:23:15




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Doc Larry, 09-04-2004 20:32:00  
Not to beat a dead horse but what about the powrcels?? Could this be the problem? Also since I don't have any old injectors could I check the compression from the powrcel side after removal. I know its threaded. I see you dream about the same things I do. Bet you are over forty too. Thanks.



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Doc Larry

09-05-2004 05:03:02




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Walter , 09-05-2004 04:23:15  
Walter,

Yes, the book does say to check the powrcels whenever you have injector problems, but I have no experience with them. (IT book does explain the procedure). Maybe someone else can tell us more....

The only problem I see with checking compression through the powrcel hole is that you'll be changing the volume of the cylinder by pulling the powrcel.

My gut feeling is that the last guy may have had something apart and put it together incorrectly. Simply because that seems to have happened a lot in my experience.

And yes I'm over 40!

Larry

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Dave N

09-05-2004 05:02:44




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Walter , 09-05-2004 04:23:15  

sounds like you have a blown head gasket blown out between the cyls.



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Doc Larry

09-05-2004 06:05:28




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Dave N, 09-05-2004 05:02:44  
Dave,

That's another possibility although I'd expect misfiring on both #3 and #4 and that apparently (?) is not the case. A compression test would narrow things down quite a bit...

Larry



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Walter

09-06-2004 19:02:37




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Doc Larry, 09-05-2004 06:05:28  
#3 is not hitting at all #4 is seems to be firing as good as the others. But if I had a blown head gasket wouldn't I be getting oil in the water or water in the oil? I'll try to get a compression test done soon and let yall know the results be looking for a new post and thanks for the help.



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Doc Larry

09-06-2004 19:52:05




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Walter , 09-06-2004 19:02:37  
Walter,

If the gasket were bad between cylinders, you would expect to have poor compression on both. If it were bad between the cylinder and the water jacket or an oil passage, you would be burning antifreeze (white smoke) or oil (blue smoke). Finally, if the gasket were bad between the oil and water passages, they would be mixing. I don"t think the head gasket is a likely problem in this particular "case" based on what you"ve told us although anything is possible....

One other thing you might check is the lift on the push rods (compared to those on one of the other cylinders). I"m still intrigued by your comment that the cylinder seems to miss less if you decrease the valve lash (a dangerous thing to do, by the way....).

Good Luck,

Larry

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Walter

09-07-2004 17:28:07




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Doc Larry, 09-06-2004 19:52:05  
Found the problem. After trying to remove the powrcel with no success. I backed the rocker arms off allowing both valves the opportunity to seat. I then pressured up the cylinder thru the powrcel hole and air came out of the exhaust. So for the time being I think I've found one of a potential many problems. Took the head off today. Pistons look ok but I guess there is no way to tell about the rings until I get the head fixed. Thanks.

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Doc Larry

09-07-2004 17:44:46




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 Re: Case 500 has a dead cylinder in reply to Walter , 09-07-2004 17:28:07  
Walter,

Good news, sounds like a valve job on one head will probably get you running.

BTW, I recall a discussion of some tricks to getting the powrcels out - you might want to search the archives....


Larry



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