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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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Hydraulics theory question for my SC

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Bob Ky

05-05-2004 09:55:43




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I am attempting to add hydraulics to my 43 SC. I recently bought a used medium sized single stage gear pump (no brand name or identifying marks but it has a 7/8 inch input shaft and a 1 inch outlet- someone else estimated it at 20-30 gpm) that I would like to mount this so as to be turned by my crankshaft or belt pulley. I realize that my SC hp would not be nearly enough to pump 20-30 gpm at 2000psi. I would like to decrease the pump�s output to 5-8gpm so the motor won�t be stalled but maintain 2000 psi.

Is reducing gpm but maintaining reasonably high pressure possible? ( I was told that the pump was totally rebuilt when I bought it so I am assuming that it is fairly tight inside)


Can I assume that most pumps are made to run at 3000 rpms so cutting the pump rpms down to 1000 would reduce gpm output by a factor of 3?
Could I install a valve between the inlet of the pump and my hydraulic reservoir to slightly reduce the amount of fluid that the pump can suck and regulate the output this way? Or would the pump try to develop a slight vacuum which would damage its seals, cause it to suck air and make the fluid foam? I would never attempt to shut the fluid off completely while it was running.

Thanks in advance for your time

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Bob KY

05-06-2004 08:50:36




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 Re: Hydraulics theory question for my SC in reply to Bob Ky, 05-05-2004 09:55:43  
Thank you all for your input!

Now that I know that restricting the inlet will be harmful, I 'll probably just try to gear this pump down and hope I don't sacrifice pressure.

If it doesn't work out, I'll start hunting for one of those used delco distributor mounted pumps.



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fixerupper

05-05-2004 19:18:06




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 Re: Hydraulics theory question for my SC in reply to Bob Ky, 05-05-2004 09:55:43  
Yes, cavitation will hurt your pump. Restricting the inlet flow, in other words starving the pump, will cause air bubbles to form in the oil and when they are compressed against the gears of the pump they will collapse violently and erode matal away from the gears.



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Steve Lehman

05-05-2004 14:54:43




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 Re: Hydraulics theory question for my SC in reply to Bob Ky, 05-05-2004 09:55:43  
I had a pump on a 1951 DI that ran off the crankshaft (mounted in front of the tractor) with a 3/4" outlet and 1" inlet. It ran a large Lull loader.
I think that a distributor flange mount pump would be a better deal for you. M & W made them for several tractors. An intermediate gear drive assembly mounts where the magneto bolts on, then the pump is behind the drive assembly. A Delco distributor mounts in the intermediate gear drive assembly. I would assume that most Delco distributors will fit in there (may need to change the drive gear). I just picked up a pump, distributor, reservoir, and single-spool valve for my Oliver 70 for $100. The inlet is 3/4" and outlet is 1/2".

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Bob Ky

05-05-2004 10:55:42




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 Re: Hydraulics theory question for my SC in reply to Bob Ky, 05-05-2004 09:55:43  
Thanks guys.

I hope its not a 1750 rpm pump- if so it'll probably still be turning too fast at 1000rpm.

The gears inside are solid so I am not able to reduce the gpm that way.

I thought about the distributer drive, but the pump is so large that this would be difficult to brace properly as well as adapting it to run off of that shaft.

So would cavitation harm the pump?



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Dave

05-05-2004 10:17:21




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 Re: Hydraulics theory question for my SC in reply to Bob Ky, 05-05-2004 09:55:43  
Bob,

Reducing GPM is only going to SLOW down your attachments(cylinders), you still will build FULL pressure,

Pumps can run anywhere from 1750 to ?

As you restrict the input(suction) you will cause your pump to cavitate, the pump is designed to output 20-30 gpm, lowering the rpm will give you less delivery at the output but the amount I don't know.

good luck



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C. Amick

05-05-2004 10:15:38




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 Re: Hydraulics theory question for my SC in reply to Bob Ky, 05-05-2004 09:55:43  
If I were going to try this, I would try running it off the timing gear so that you will have live hydraulics. There was a photo floating around on this site of a Case DI with a timing gear operated pump. Do you know what this pump looks like inside? Some have removable impeller vanes. If it does, perhaps you could reduce the pumping capacity by removing every other vane, I've never tried doing that. I wouldn't restrict the inlet flow. It sounds like the pump might be bigger than what you need. What size are the hose connections?

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Bob KY

05-05-2004 11:20:00




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 Re: Re: Hydraulics theory question for my SC in reply to C. Amick, 05-05-2004 10:15:38  
The pump outlet is 1"



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C. Amick

05-05-2004 11:50:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Hydraulics theory question for my SC in reply to Bob KY, 05-05-2004 11:20:00  
That is pretty big. Have you tried finding one off another old tractor? I think some of the larger AC's had a hydraulic pump that was coupled to a Delco distributor. That may have also been the same setup that I saw on the Case DI. Are you still running a magneto? The Delco distibutor will bolt right up. The IH distributor will also bolt up. Some of the larger Farmalls used a pump that bolted between the distributor and timing gear. It may be more difficult to make one of those work, but if you don't have an oil filter, you should at least have the room.

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Bob Ky

05-05-2004 12:51:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hydraulics theory question for my in reply to C. Amick, 05-05-2004 11:50:51  
I do have the distributor, but I bought the pump for $75 and wanted to make use of it.

I heard that a pump off an old case combine would bolt right up, but those combines are getting rare and I wasn't able to locate one.

I might have to check on the old AC units made for the delco distributor- I hadn't thought of one of those- so the delco unit was the same for several brands of older tractors?

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C. Amick

05-05-2004 13:20:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hydraulics theory question for in reply to Bob Ky, 05-05-2004 12:51:42  
I think the Delco distributors off the AC WD tractors will work, there may be others. The Delco distributor makes a right angle (90 degree) bend and sits upright. The hydraulic pump bolts to the side opposite the timing gear. Perhaps someone else will respond to your post that knows more than me. Just for your information, I think the front wheels off a WD will also fit a Case SC.



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