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Future of Case company...?

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Glenn FitzGeral

11-24-2003 11:50:40

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Any chance of Case being independant again?

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Jamie

11-30-2003 15:43:30

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Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 11-24-2003 11:50:40

I think it is a shame that a great company like case is stuck behind that ugly red color. My family used to drive nothing but case products but when they went red we unfortuneatley went green. My family and i have never liked IH but have always loved cases. Still have a 970 and 1270 that we use for small things. But otherwise green. If it were up to me and i had the money i would definetly reverse what has happened to case and split them from red and return them to their heritage where they belong.

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Don't forget Cat....

11-24-2003 18:28:00

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Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 11-24-2003 11:50:40

Guys, don't forget Cat. Cat & Deere are the only ones left that have not been bought out. Cat may be out of the Ag business after selling off Challenger, but they still build tractors. Construction of course. Backhoe loaders for one. The dozer division is referred to as TTT. Track Type Tractor. Cat started with a Track Type Gasoline tractor(Holt) in the 1880's in California to work wet ground. One of Cat's huge advantages over the competition has been 199 dealers worldwide employing around 72,000 people. Cat itself employs fewer than that. Another fact in their survival is that Cat seems to be able to adapt & even help lead with the changing world of mfg. Cat (& Deere) also have great marketing skills. Some of the best designed tractors over the years have not sold because of poor marketing.
Great discussion.
Steve

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kyhayman

11-24-2003 17:03:35

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Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 11-24-2003 11:50:40

I'd say not a chance but then who would have believed 10 years ago that McCormick tractors would be back.

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INCase

11-24-2003 14:15:53

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Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 11-24-2003 11:50:40

Doubtful. Many of the big farm equipment co.s were sucessful in the begining due to the management (often family) (a little luck and being in the right place at the right time didn't hurt) after a while the family dies off and the kids don't want it. Classic example is Oliver. OLd company, Great tractor (sorry case guys) but the grandkids sold out to White in 1960-61ish? no more family .. Other problems that have plagued the equipment industry has been old out of date factories (again the Olie plow works buildings in SouthBend, IN) and high union $ labor which made things hard to deal with in the slow years that you get with Ag on occation. Consider Case. Not the biggest or most popular tractor company but they (Tenneco) bought IH, a very large very popular comp. Tenneco itself is another example. THe Tenneco stockholders were robbed blind. Tenneco sold off Case and split up the other divisions and the collective stock is lower than 30 years ago (I haven't checked lately). talk about enron... DuPont the same way. Murray lawn tractors are owned by the Chineese!!!! no debat there that's wrong!.. So far JD and Gehl are about the only "older" ones left untouched. Gehl (I belive) still has family involved yet. could go on and on. but gotta get home...

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John H-WI

11-24-2003 16:08:16

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Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to INCase, 11-24-2003 14:15:53

One comment about Oliver. Oliver folks maintain that money was loaned to White and they couldn't pay it back. Only thing left was to merge into White . Don't know the reason why Moline was taken over by White but it sure left many loyal long term employees holding the bag.

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Don Rudolph

11-24-2003 13:38:26

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Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 11-24-2003 11:50:40

Glenn,
The amazing thing is that they are in business in some form at all. The Case company management blundered in so many ways over the years it is almost comical. This was a highly successful company that survived the Depression intact with a large dealer network and excellent reputation only to find itself in continual financial trouble throughout the 50's, 60's and 70's. Here are just a few examples: A year long strike in 1946 that crippled the dealers for lack of parts and machinery. Many dealers took on competing lines in order to survive. Refusing to buy a knotter patent to allow for a self tying baler Case management said there would never be a successful self-tying baler. (New Holland bought it and now owns them). Not updating their tractor line fast enough in the late 40's and early 50's. The main competition had more speeds and more power. Letting the competition overtake their superiority in tractors, balers, choppers, combines, skid steers, backhoes, bull dozers and selling off their garden tractor division (look at John Deere).Replacing Leon Clausen who was against any change with Mark Roitman who was for changing everything and who nearly bankrupted the company and many of its dealers. Introducing Case-o-matic with flaws in it just about killed them. People still talk about it (in a negative way). Trying to sell the round nose 300 as a 3 plow tractor. Having a bad powershift design that wasn't corrected for 15 years. . Everybody said Case had a good tractor engine just the tranny was bad. Now Case continues to blunder about, for example: taking away the construction line from some of their ag dealers has caused hard feelings and loss of sales within their dealer network. Now many of those dealers are selling JCB instead. Case is also running away from the Case part of their heritage. Just stop in at any Case/IH dealer and look at their toy selection and the pictures on the wall-all IH. These are just a few examples of corporate mismangement that was rampant at Case.

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SHeiserman

11-24-2003 16:30:06

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Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Don Rudolph, 11-24-2003 13:38:26

I've never heard that about C-O-M before. Do you suppose a tractor with a torque converter in it would have sold better back then even if the bugs were worked out? Anyway, owe you an apology. I put off and put off sending you those ads. Then they disappeared. I found them, and if you give me your address, I'll send them to you. I swear on the perfectly functioning torque converter in my tractor they will be in the mailbox no later than 12:00 noon Friday. E-mail address is sheiserman@frontiernet.net if you want to go that route.

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Don Rudolph

11-24-2003 16:49:23

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Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to SHeiserman, 11-24-2003 16:30:06

In researching Case dealer history I always ask what is the favorite Case tractor of all time and the answer is almost always the big 400. Case finally had its competition behind the 8-ball with more speeds, good power, good fuel economy, dependable service, power steering and modern looks. IH had the torque amplifier and I believe that Case felt it had to respond with something similar. When Case-o-matic was introduced it had poor seals that leaked fluid between the transmission and rear end compartments. These tractors had to be brought in and fixed up and it made Case look bad after their big promotions. Most dealers didn't take the time to teach the farmers how to drive them either. A dealer I recently interviewed said COM was designed backwards. He said the tractor should have been in direct drive mostly and then use COM when you needed to shift down. We had an 830 COM and had absolutely no trouble with it. Other people had COM and absolutely hated it-especially if they had trouble and had to fix it-very costly. Even today a COM will bring way less money. Probably a great idea, just short on execution. My address is 5591 Whitefish Bay Road Sturgeon Bay, WI 54235 Thanks for your help!

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SHeiserman

11-24-2003 18:28:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Don Rudolph, 11-24-2003 16:49:23

Interesting. It took awhile for me to get used to the C-O-M. Anyway, the ads were copied off micro-film (black and white), but are pretty easy to read. They should all be dated. Good Luck.

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John H-WI

11-24-2003 16:15:57

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Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Don Rudolph, 11-24-2003 13:38:26

Hey Don, we pulled three 14's all over our hills back on the farms with the 300. Best little tractor or one of the best Case built. The 350 would have been nicer with the few more horses. Would love to have a 350 to fix up some time. How are you keeping up with all the dealers that DCtom identifies?

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Don Rudolph

11-24-2003 16:34:35

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Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to John H-WI, 11-24-2003 16:15:57

I have been watching DC Tom's posts for clues about dealers and have gotten quite a few new ones. I am still trying to figure out what it means when the build cards say shipped to J.I. Case Co. in a particular city. Did Case have warehouses in certain areas? Maybe on a rail siding? I know some of them are branch house sites but Waukon IA and Arthur, IL were not. If anybody figures it out let me know. On the 300, I can only go by personal family experience. My dad tried one out and it could not pull 3-14's at all like our D could. He said it was more like our VAO and he was not impressed. The dealer list is going to take 10 years at this rate, but it is really fun detective work. Thanks for asking! Don

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dctom

11-24-2003 16:41:00

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Don Rudolph, 11-24-2003 16:34:35

Don; i dont know what that means for sure except that they were branch houses or maybe collection depots that dealers all got their tractors from, why dont you come cown here and go thru these cards and glean all the dealers from them, only take a few weeks and we have a spare bed LOL DCTOM

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Don Rudolph

11-24-2003 16:56:06

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to dctom, 11-24-2003 16:41:00

Tom,
If I was retired I might take you up on the offer! However, I have a small company that needs me full time and a farm that has beef cattle and I collect Case tractors as well. Add to that family obligations and my time is limited. I am able to post today because I am home w/ a sore throat, but tomorrow its a delivery to IN. I sure appreciate your posts and the info they contain. Thanks for all your help. Don

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dctom

11-24-2003 17:22:41

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Don Rudolph, 11-24-2003 16:56:06

i am in indiana only 25 miles south of south bend DCTOM

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Don Rudolph

11-24-2003 20:31:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company in reply to dctom, 11-24-2003 17:22:41

Tom,
I would love to stop and visit you sometime, but this is going to be a quick trip-down and back- for Thanksgiving is upon us.

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SHeiserman

11-24-2003 15:42:32

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Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Don Rudolph, 11-24-2003 13:38:26

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BLR

11-24-2003 19:22:10

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Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to SHeiserman, 11-24-2003 15:42:32

In my opinion the COM would have done much better had the early seal problems been fixed prior to production. In addtion it is/was imparative for the dealer to understand how the system worked, and how to operate it. I don't know how many times my father had to instruct customers on the proper operation of a COM equiped tractor. My grandfather bought a brand new 611b and used it for years without any trouble.

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Don Rudolph

11-24-2003 20:28:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to BLR, 11-24-2003 19:22:10

Do you mind if I ask who your father was, and the name and location of his Case dealership? I am compiling a database of Case dealers and plan to write a book. Thanks! Don

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BLR

11-24-2003 21:41:52

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Don Rudolph, 11-24-2003 20:28:13

Don email me

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Don Rudolph

11-25-2003 06:21:15

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to BLR, 11-24-2003 21:41:52

BLR,
Your address is hidden as I guess mine is also. Try me at: rudolph@greenbaynet.net Thanks!

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SHeiserman

11-24-2003 19:45:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to BLR, 11-24-2003 19:22:10

Took me awhile to realize I was the problem and not the tractor. It took a bit of abuse in the process. Just seems to me as smooth as this works, there would be more of them.

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BLR

11-24-2003 21:52:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to SHeiserman, 11-24-2003 19:45:26

I was probaably luckier than most. The first tractor I learned to operate was my grandfathers Farmall B, but I just loved the look of his 611b and I quickly left the B behind and would run the 611 given the choice. Since I started young with the COM I had none of the biases that people that had been running tractors for years had. I firmly believe there is nothing a dry clutch tractor can do that can't be done better with a COM tractor. I'll climb down off my box now and wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving.

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Don Rudolph

11-24-2003 20:25:01

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to SHeiserman, 11-24-2003 19:45:26

You are the exception to the rule. Very few farmers would blame themselves-it would be the tractors fault or as my Dad always said:those damn engineers. Of course if he couldn't fix it with a hammer and chisel it was bad engineering. One more thing about COM, you have to use the correct oil. I'll bet good money many farmers put in engine oil and it caused problems.

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Craig

11-25-2003 22:39:36

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Don Rudolph, 11-24-2003 20:25:01

Hey, Don, if you are researching Case dealers, here's a lead for you. One of my maternal grandfather's four brothers was a guy named George Woods who owned a Case dealership in Vandalia, MO, probably from some time before WWII until about 1954 or 1955. Uncle George passed away many years ago, but if you have specific questions, I'll ask my mom what she knows/remembers.

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Don Rudolph

11-27-2003 07:08:30

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company in reply to Craig, 11-25-2003 22:39:36

Thank you very much for the information. Do you have any idea about the name of his business or maybe where it was located? Don

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SHeiserman

11-25-2003 05:04:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Don Rudolph, 11-24-2003 20:25:01

One final admission- I'm not a farmer. I was just looking for a tractor to move snow with. I bought the first reasonably priced tractor that came along. It's done good by me. Thanks Don and BLR, this has been interesting.

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Glenn/Mn

11-24-2003 12:23:08

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Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 11-24-2003 11:50:40

How do you fiqure, they way I see it the parent company sold the farmall line out to another company in europe and if I may add (these folks send their tractors here for us to buy wrapped in an american name all the while the news of that region tells how they dont support us)in an attempt to increse their bottom line. if the CaseIH company as it was did that, while they were around they would have been chastized. the foundry is a important part of the operation as well as the engineers it is mostly the people that made the company and their efforts. where are they now and the kids to replace them as most people nowadays have never ridden on a tractor let alone fixed one. people make the tractors. tractors dont make the people

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old

11-24-2003 12:12:25

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Re: Future of Case company...? in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 11-24-2003 11:50:40

Probably not but which company is now days, a Ford isn't ford a Chev isn't chev and Dodge isn't dodge any more most companys are falling to others and not going back to what they where in the past. Even JD has done that. Just look at a new JD compact tractor they aren't a true JD either. Well this is my 2 cents worth

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