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W 24C transmission

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Martin

03-27-2003 10:39:19




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My W 24C wheel loader has an Allison TT 2421 transmission, according to the tag on the side of the trans. It can be shifted into Rev, neutral, first or second "range". The operator's manual says it should have two speeds in each range, shifting automatically, for a total of four forward speeds.

Based on the miles-per-hour shown for each speed in the operator's manual, mine is producing reverse, first range high and second range low, but nothing else. I don't much care about second high, since I don't travel distances, but would like to have first range low speed for the power it would give.

The local Case dealer says it's odd to have 1st high and second low - you would expect 1st low and second low, or first high and second high. That seems logical to me too, but I don't know anything about these transmissions.

If anyone has information or even just a thought about these transmissions and troubleshooting them, please respond.

The machine is 65 miles from the dealer and I'm hoping to avoid the expense of a service call unless I have no choice.

If you would prefer to email direct, my address is martincherrysr@hotmail.com.

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Max

03-27-2003 19:40:10




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 Re: W 24C transmission in reply to Martin, 03-27-2003 10:39:19  
Funny thing is how I was just describing this transmission to a co-worker a a couple of weeks ago. Don't look at this like I'm a ballon popper but here are the real facts on your unit. The Allison transmission has only three clutch packs, reverse, forward low and forward high. The other speeds come from the torque convertor which is a two speed type. Its hard to troubleshoot your transmission by symtoms so here is what you'll really need to do. You will need to check the transmission pressures and the stall speeds. The first thing that I would check is the transmission cut-out valve, these had a tendency to collect water from the air system due to operators thinking the left pedal was a clutch pedal thus causing the transmission to only operate at less than optimal transmission pressure. As far as feeling the shift between low range 1st and 2nd, high range 3rd and 4th, or reverse 1st and 2nd, its all imaginary for the two speed turbine blades in the torque convertor do it so smooth unless someone has worked on the torque convertor, then it most likely has the wrong parts in it. I worked on on many years ago that was low on power. The pressures were good and another dealer had just rebuilt it. I tore it down and it had be baffled for a while until I torn down the torque convertor and found the wrong impellar in it. Another unit I went to work on and only spent 15 minutes on it by cleaning out the clutch cutout valve. Hope your unit is as simple. Just remember to keep it simple for the problem may really be simpler than originly thought.

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Martin

03-28-2003 10:42:38




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 Re: Re: W 24C transmission in reply to Max, 03-27-2003 19:40:10  
Thanks for the response and suggestions. I'm hoping this is a simple problem, but I just don't know enough about this to even know what to look at.

Here's how my cutout valve is working right now: when you use the left pedal, it disengages the transmission so that you can speed up the engine for faster lift speed, etc. As long as it engages and disengages, is it working correctly, or might there still be a problem?

Also, can you tell me how to identify that valve and where it is mounted on the trans?

Do you have the specs (or know where i can find them) for the trans. pressures and stall speeds, and what ports to check for pressures?

I have been told that the engine has to be removed before the trans. can be removed. Is that correct? I hope it doesn;t go that far, but you never know.

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Max

03-28-2003 19:34:56




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 Re: Re: Re: W 24C transmission in reply to Martin, 03-28-2003 10:42:38  
When you release the left pedal, does it engage quickly or gradually? The clutch cutout is on the transmission control valve and its the only one with an air line atached to it. If its this valve it will be sluggish to engage in gear.
Stall speeds are 2100-2200 for the convertor, 2200-2300 for the hydraulics going over releif, and 1500-1600 with combined convertor and hydraulic stall. High idle with no load is 2330-2370. Main trans pressure is 165-195 psi with convertor in pressure at 80, convertor out at 65 (no load) and 40 psi at load. lube pressure is 15-30. These pressures should be taken with the temp of at least 150F, but don't overheat the oil during the test. The pressures should be taken with the trans in high range and the wheels cannot move or irroneous readings will result. Main hydraulic relief is 2300. As far as the ports, they are located on the transmission control valve and are labled.
Not only does the engione and transmission have to be removed as a unit but so does the entire rear hood, but the hood can be removed as a unit with everything attached, including the radiator. If you have to remove the engine, be sure you use heavy duty equipment for then engine and trans are quite heavy. The CPE dealer where I used to work at back east had one technician drop one of those engines because he was using one of those 5000 lb capacity engine slings, luckily the engine was only about six inches above the floor when it broke loose, but did it ever make a loud boom. I think that most likely the transmission is ok, most operators think that there's a problem with them for they can't feel it shift automatically.

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martin

03-31-2003 07:48:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: W 24C transmission in reply to Max, 03-28-2003 19:34:56  
Thanks for responding.

You are right, that the reason I first thought there might be a problem was I couldn't feel a shift. Now I know I probably won't feel it, and that's fine, but the other thing is, the operators manual shows the following ground speeds:

low range forward, 1st 2.6 miles per hour 2nd 6.5 miles per hour
high range forward, 3rd 11.4 miles per hour 4th 22.2 miles per hour

In low range, I'm seeing more or less 6 miles per hour, and in high range, 11 or 12 miles per hour. This tells me the transmission is producing low range 2nd and high range 3rd.

If it will shift up to second in low range, why won't it shift up to fourth in high range?

If it ends up that I can't get fourth, that's ok. That's faster than I want to travel the machine anyway.

The one thing I'd really like to find out is whether I'm getting low range first gear. That's where the power is. I dont want to be abusing the machine by pushing into a heavy load in second, when it should be in first.

Is there a way to check if low range 1st is engaging? Or since I seem to ahve low range second, does that mean low range first has got to be working?

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