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Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!!

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Brad Wies

11-16-2002 20:37:23




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Hi guys ....

My grandfather has a Case 300 utillity with a loader... it has the continental gas motor.

When it is warm or cold out, it won't start off of the battery, but if pulled, it wil start within the first 6 feet of being pulled.

Sounds like the battery doesn't have enough power, or the starter is drawing too much. The starter tested O.K. and the solenoid was changed, newer battery too.

We would like to get it fixed. What can we do to get it to crank?!

Thanks for any and all help....just looking for any input!

Thanks again,-Brad

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C. Amick

11-19-2002 09:52:27




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 Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-16-2002 20:37:23  
Is it still 6 volt? You didn't buy a 12 volt solenoid did you? Is the battery ground cable getting good contact with the tractor body? If it is still 6 volt, you need to use large diameter battery cables. I think the proper size is Number 6?



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papab

11-18-2002 20:52:08




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 Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-16-2002 20:37:23  
you can buy an 8volt battery now and you just put it in . you dont have to change anything else . check the ware on the distributer shaft an bushings . if its got play in it your point setting wont be right.



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caseman-d

11-18-2002 20:32:49




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 Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-16-2002 20:37:23  
Brad,
You said you tried a newer battery, not a new one. Are you sure that battery is alright. Also have you tried to use jumper cables to start it. If so did that help???. Another thing you might try is pulling the plugs then see if it will spin over without any compression. Might try checking to see if the starter isn't hanging up on the flywheel. Have you checked the timing. I would double check that newer battery and try a different starter. It shouldn't take much to spin a 300 over.
caseman-d

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sky

11-18-2002 02:55:13




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 Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-16-2002 20:37:23  
try a new condenser,had the same problem on an old VW once,had to push it or park on a hill.new condenser fixed it.



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Paul f

11-17-2002 06:34:55




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 Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-16-2002 20:37:23  
I greatly improved the cranking on my DC by replacing all the battery cables with O gauge and running an additional ground cable from the original ground point to one of the starter mounting bolts



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klyde

11-17-2002 05:36:53




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 Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-16-2002 20:37:23  
How about the cables? So many times I've seen the cables replaced with lighter 12volt cables, I can't count. 6 volt cables are heavier because they have to carry about twice as much amperage. As John said check connections. Ground cable somtimes hooks to the battery tray or some other piece of tin. Make sure its going to the frame of the tractor. And if all else fails, check the switch to make sure you're getting power to the coil in the start position.

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John M

11-16-2002 21:45:29




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 Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-16-2002 20:37:23  
Brad....Check the ground! Be sure all the connections are bright clean. All of 'em. The ground is most important. A bad ground will sound/act like a low battery. You won't get enough current to spin the engine fast enough to start, but pulling will work because it doesn't require too much current to fire the plugs.



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Brad Wies

11-17-2002 11:37:04




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 Re: Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to John M, 11-16-2002 21:45:29  
The tractor is 12 volt BTW ... anyways, with a thicker battery cable, would it have more cranking power? The reason I ask is the tractor has power to the coil (enough to run)

The tractor starts righ away when pulled because all of the ignition components are in good shape. The only problem is when you turn the key, it just goes rump ... sounds like the battery is dead even with the charger on engine start you cannot get the tractor to continiously turn over enough to start it. I hope you guys understand my explanation. Thanks -Brad Wies

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ag-lad

11-17-2002 20:04:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-17-2002 11:37:04  
If your engine won't spin over fast enough, it sounds to me like you have some kind of problem with your starter. Check brushes, armature, field coils and bushings. If bushings are worn, the armature may be dragging on the field pole pieces and scratches or rub marks on the armature and field poles may show up. A 6 volt starter on 12 volts should spin that engine easily. My 2 cents.



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Allan

11-17-2002 12:17:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-17-2002 11:37:04  
Is this a 12 volt conversion? If so there should be a resistor in the coil primary side and a bypass for the resistor to provide full 12 volts when starting. But it sounds like your problem is not turning over. First, is the engine easy to turn (try it with the crank). Second , as everyone says, connections and cables. Third, The starter itself, could have a flaky problem like a shorted field coil that only shows up under duress.

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Brad Wies

11-17-2002 20:11:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Allan, 11-17-2002 12:17:53  
The tractor is a factory 12 volt, the starter has been load teasted and showed up fine. The motor is only 1-2 years old with minimal use on it. It runs great when it starts, but the starting system is weak. The starter has been rebuilt a few times too. Thanks for any more insight. So far it seems to me I need to check ground, maybe even go to THICKER cables? We just want to get this problem fixed so it doesn't take 2 people to start it! Thanks,-Brad Wies

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GeoMo

11-18-2002 06:03:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-17-2002 20:11:08  
Lots of good advice.
Does tractor have solenoid or pushbutton? Either could have burned contracts and not transfering current.



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Brad Wies

11-18-2002 06:47:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to GeoMo, 11-18-2002 06:03:00  
Geo, it has a new solenoid and uses a key ignition .... not a push button...so now a new question arises! Can an ignition switch wear out till where it doesn't work well?? Is there anyway I can test it? I would really appreciate it if I could get more insight... thanks in advance!!

To sky.... when you changed the condensor she fired right up and and cranked over faster?! I thought the condensor only worked for spark, not cranking?

Thanks for all the replies everyone! -Brad WIes

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GeoMo

11-18-2002 11:16:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Brad Wies, 11-18-2002 06:47:28  
Switch is probably OK, check by jumping battery cable and switch terminal at soleniod.



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Paul

11-18-2002 20:23:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to GeoMo, 11-18-2002 11:16:17  
Look for a smashed,or pinched wire, or mouse nest behind the insterment pannel



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Brad Wies

11-19-2002 19:41:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hard Start--electrical system prob. all read please!! in reply to Paul, 11-18-2002 20:23:35  
Thanks for the help guys, I am going to check the battery cables and the wiring and the such and try the plugs out method to see what is going on, thanks again,-Brad Wies



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