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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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411B hydraulic problem

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PA Steve

03-11-2006 04:16:14




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I'm asking for help again. When I move the remote hydraulic lever in either direction on my 411 the Eagle hitch goes up. I have checked filters, spools and put new o-rings on the interlock. Everything looks fine. Any of you Case experts know what could cause this. Thanks, Steve




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PA Steve

03-15-2006 15:55:14




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 Re: 411B hydraulic problem in reply to PA Steve , 03-11-2006 04:16:14  
Thanks Joe and Roger. I haven't had the chance to remove the control valves yet. The interlock spools do not have the one chamfered end so I believe the direction does not matter. I'm going to get back working on it as soon as I can. The manual says to use 10 weight oil for my hydraulics since my tractor is a Case-o-matic. Do you know is there a better substitute? Straight 10 weight is hard to find.Thanks for all your help and I'll let you know what I find. Steve

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PA Steve

03-12-2006 10:34:58




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 Re: 411B hydraulic problem in reply to PA Steve , 03-11-2006 04:16:14  
Thanks for the reply gentlemen. I know the plugs in the interlocks are in the right spots. The 3 point works ok by itself except that when you lower it, it starts to go up before it goes down. Roger, it sounds like you"re saying my problem is in the 3 point control valve. That"s where I"ll go next. If they are bad would you know if a cotrol spool from a 300 would fit. I have an extra one of those. Thanks for all the help. Steve

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Roger (Mi)

03-13-2006 05:36:38




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 Re: Control valve from 300? in reply to PA Steve, 03-12-2006 10:34:58  
To my knowledge, they're the same. Haven't worked on pre-1960 Case tractor hydraulics. You'll be able to compare them when you remove the one from your 411B. The gaskets between the control valves are newspaper thin. You may need to get those from an CaseIH dealer. Use NO sealer. Good luck.



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Joe (Wa)

03-13-2006 11:19:53




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 Re: Control valve from 300? in reply to Roger (Mi), 03-13-2006 05:36:38  
The spools for the control valves on the 300, 300b and 400b are the same p/n G16670.

The control valve body for the 300 and 300b is p/n G1231 and for the 400b the body is p/n G1281. The control valves share many of the same internal parts but looking at the pixs in the parts manuals it appears the castings are different. The control valves may not be interchangeable as a complete unit.

Gaskets from Case are the way to go but if you have to make your own, I use chart paper for this type application. Chart paper is about 0.005" and dense enough to be somewhat forgiving if your torque is less than perfect. I use a metal-metal sealant, apply and wipe off any excess, allow to dry beyond tacky but not fully cured.

I am probably missing something but having a hard time seeing this as one problem of a leaking lower control valve spool. The hitch movement when you move the upper spool indicates that the lower spool is leaking but with the upper spool in neutral and lower spool moved to the lowering position the hitch should not rise unless the spool in the interlock block is moving late and not far enough to fully uncover the return port. The service manual fix for insufficient movement of the interlock spool to relieve back pressure is to add another gasket to the forward interlock cap. Also if you have the older style interlock spool with the one end chamfered, the chamfer end must be installed oriented to the forward end of the interlock.

Joe

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Joe (Wa)

03-11-2006 14:10:24




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 Re: 411B hydraulic problem in reply to PA Steve , 03-11-2006 04:16:14  
Steve, I tend to agree with Roger as there should be no hydraulic pressure to the interlocks when the control valves spools are in neutral.

The following is just a shot in the dark as the hydraulic flow charts, except for neutral position, are not in my service manual so I am basically just guessing here, perhaps Roger can correct me.

When you move the spool in the upper control valve to actuate the remotes you are closing off the pump return port to the sump, as well as, simultaneously opening the supply and return ports to the remotes. That means that your lower control valve has the same pump pressure as you are delivering to the remotes.

If the lower control valve spool is leaking or out of neutral, the resulting pressure would tend to raise the eagle hitch piston since the upper control valve has the pump return passage port blocked.

The double-acting and single-acting interlocks are identical except that the center port is open on the single-acting block and you have to install a pipe plug in there to use it on double-acting systems. This center port appears to be in communication with the sump via a passage in the control valves casting independent of the spool position.

I was just wondering if some where along the line your upper and lower interlock blocks were swapped or the lower interlock block center port still has the plug. And even so would this cause the problem you are experiencing?

Joe

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Roger (Mi)

03-12-2006 05:12:53




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 Re: hydraulic interlocks in reply to Joe (Wa), 03-11-2006 14:10:24  
Joe is basically right. The purpose of an interlock is to prevent hydraulic oil flow unless the engine is running and a lever is moved. If the bottom and top interlocks are switched, the 3 point could only move in one direction. The interlock (plug removed) relies on hydraulic oil movement to open the interlock to allow oil from the 3 point to return to sump. If the top interlock has no plug, there will only be hydraulic oil pressure in one direction because the other direction would return to sump.
Those control valves can be expensive. Perhaps you could find one in a salvage yard that was used in the top position (remote) and wasn't used much?

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Roger (Mi)

03-12-2006 05:24:11




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 Re: Tightening the control valve bolts in reply to Roger (Mi), 03-12-2006 05:12:53  
One more thing! When tightening down the control valve bolts, tighten to 15 foot pounds and you MUST tighten from the OUTSIDE in. To do otherwise will cause the control valves to bind! Good luck.



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Roger (Mi)

03-11-2006 05:40:39




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 Re: Look at my response (Hey Roger MI) in reply to PA Steve , 03-11-2006 04:16:14  
I explained what causes it. You'll need to replace the 3 point control valve on top of the torque tube.



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