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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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630 GENERATOR

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Triplerange

09-21-2006 05:16:34




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I need an electrical engineer. I have a positive ground system and have taken the gen. and regulator to Napa to check they said both work and I saw the gauge at there place so I know they do. However I get home and hook stuff up correctly with new wires and that tractor's darn ammeter says I aint getting any juice. I spent from 5:30 till my wife calls me and asks when I'm coming home every evening for the past 4 days trying to find the problem. To tell you the truth I dont really know how the thing was designed to recharge the battery. Can anyone explain how the Generator and regulator work on a pos. ground system?

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Bob in Mi.

09-22-2006 18:22:23




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 Re: 630 GENERATOR in reply to Triplerange, 09-21-2006 05:16:34  
I have to agree with Phil. If this is not a collector tractor, put an alternator on it. What you have wasted in time would have paid for the alternator. If you do go this route, check proof meter cable, may be about 3" short. A man in Grand Rapids Mi. can supply the kit- Ebay- Antigue tractor. He sells the Ford kits but will supply for other makes. I made mine for my 630 but he tell me that he supplies the alt. w/drives.

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630crazy

09-21-2006 14:26:11




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 Re: 630 GENERATOR in reply to Triplerange, 09-21-2006 05:16:34  
I saved this troubleshooting procedure from a post last year that JohnT responded to. Print it out and take it to your tractor, go over it step by step. Hope this will help you out.


Generic troubleshooting procedure for non charging on Class A Charging Systems.

If you havent polarized, you may wanna do that just to make sure it is!!!!! Temporarily ground the Gens Field post to case then momentarily flash jump a wire from the VR"s BAT terminal over to its ARM (or GEN) terminal (or direct to ARM post on Gen) and you ought to get a spark. Always try the simple fixes first!!!!


1) For a good working Gen to get to and charge the battery, it has to have a path usually from the Gens ARM post output,,,,, ,,,,,to and through the cutout relay portion of the VR (between its ARM and BAT terminals),,,,, ,,,up to the Load (NOT to battery) side of the Ammeter,,,,, ,,,to and through the ammeter,,,,, ,,,,from BAT side of ammeter to ungrounded battery post, often via the starter lug post. Is yours wired that way or equivalent ??? The ammeter should read hot battery voltage on BOTH terminals, does yours??? Even if an ammeter were stuck (but still continuous) as RPM increases the battery voltage should rise from 12.6 to near 14 volts and/or the lights glow brighter. Have you tried that in case the ammeter isnt working right????? ?

2) If the above is so, the BAT terminal on the VR MUST ALWAYS READ HOT BATTERY VOLTAGE. Does yours??? If not, the Gen cant get to and charge the battery.

3) The Gen to VR wiring is as follows:

BAT on VR to ammeters load (NOT battery) side

ARM (or GEN) on VR to Gens Armature post.

FLD on VR to Gens Field post.

(L) Load (if you have a 4 wire VR) up to BAT supply input terminal on switch to feed loads like lights and ingition.

4. THE GEN AND VR MUST BE WELL GROUNDED AND THE BELT GOOD N TIGHT. If any doubt, run a ground wire from the grounded battery post or clean solid frame member direct to the Gen and see what happens????? ????? ????? ????? ????

NOW, if the Gen and VR are grounded,,,,,all is wired correct,,,,, ,,BAT terminal on VR is HOT,,,,, ,,Belt is tight,,,,, ,,,ammeter is good n continuous n works but she wont charge, have you had the batteries tested lately????? Is there electrolyte above all the plates and no cells have a gray or milky appearance????? A bad battery may not accept a charge you know!!!!! !! If she dont, proceed below to see if its a Gen or VR problem (AFTER you have insured the wiring per the above)

TO DETERMINE IF ITS A GEN OR VR PROBLEM

5. With the tractor running, temporarily ground the Gens Field post to case. If she charges then, the VR may be bad, or a wires missing from VR"s Field post to the Field terminal on the VR, or the VR isnt well grounded.

6. If she still dont charge, leave Field grounded and jump a wire across from the VR"s BAT and ARM terminals (jump by passes the cutout relay) and see if she charges. If then but not otherwise, the VR"s cutout relay isnt working correct (maybe points burned/carboned/resistive)

7. With the 2 steps above, you have basically by passed the VR functions, so if she still dont charge, you"re left with a bad battery or wiring or the Gen itself.

8. MOTOR TEST. You can Motor test the Gen. If its grounded and you remove the belt and apply hot battery voltage direct to its ARM Post, it should motor n run well (Armature n Brushes and Commutator okay). Then if you ground the Field and it slows down some, the Fields probably good. If it passes both those tests, it should charge, and if not, it may be a wirign or battery or grounding problem.

9. Typical Gen problems may be the brushes are worn down or the hold down spring assemblies are stuck/corroded/dirty and arent pushing the brushes tight down against the commutator. Chekc those things out. Worse may be bad fields or armature etc. Air and WD 40 etc can clean and free them, the hold downs must be free n snap and hold the brushes DOWN TIGHT.


SUMMARY: Check the wiring,,,,,the grounds,,,,, insure BAT on VR is hot,,,,, ,check battery (maybe load tested and Specific Gravity checked),,,,, ,,,good tight belt,,,,, ,insure ammeter is continuous (BOTH sides HOT),,,,, see if battery voltage rises above 12.6 and/or light glow brighter,,,,, ,,,do the Field and cutout relay VR by pass checks,,,,, ,,insure the Gens brushes arent worn down and the hold down springs are free n clean and push the brushes down tight,,,,, ,,,,,check the connections,,,,, ,,,try the Gen Motor Test to see if its good.

You may just have a bad battery or bad ground or connection if you say the Gen and VR are okay.


By:
John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer

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Triplerange

09-22-2006 05:14:17




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 Re: 630 GENERATOR in reply to 630crazy, 09-21-2006 14:26:11  
Thanks...I remember seeing that but couldn't find it. I'll try it all out.



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JSTPA

09-21-2006 13:00:20




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 Re: 630 GENERATOR in reply to Triplerange, 09-21-2006 05:16:34  
Although I'm not sure which generator those tractors have on them, they all work about the same way.The field controls how much juice the generator puts out, it puts ground to the fields on most generators and that determines how much current flows, on some generators you put field to the armature and that controls the charge rate. The contacts between the battery and armature closes to allow the current to pass through.If I were in your situations I would take and put 1 lead of a voltmeter to the armature stud and the other lead to a good ground near the generator.Start the tractor, then take a short piece of wire and jumper it form field to ground and see if my voltmeter jumps up, it could possibly go 50 or 60 volts so you dont want to hold it there for any longer than it takes to see if your voltmeter goes up. If itdoes your gens ok. The next thing I would look at is if the ampmeter has possibly gone open and not letting current pass through it.I'm assuming your polarity is correct.But you should have been able to tell that at the parts store. Also make sure your regulator is grounded.
Other than that keep asking questions and someone will figure it out, jstpa

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JSTPA

09-21-2006 13:40:06




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 Re: 630 GENERATOR in reply to JSTPA, 09-21-2006 13:00:20  
p.s. I'not an electrical engineer by any means jstpa



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PhilcaseinWPa

09-21-2006 07:14:05




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 Re: 630 GENERATOR in reply to Triplerange, 09-21-2006 05:16:34  
I hope someone can tell us both. I have the exact same situation with my 630. I've been thinling of going the alternator route.

Phil



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