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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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Case 580 CK, early 70's

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Barchiola

03-24-2008 16:02:45




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Hi Folks,
I just got home from looking at an early 70"s 580 CK that I may buy. The engine"s apart due to two bent pushrods on the same cylinder and there are a few other problems that I"m not sure I want to tackle.
Many of the hoses are pretty dried out and the outer sheathings of a few of them are cracked and peeling. Also, with the machine just sitting there, the steering wheel spins without a stop in sight. Is that normal? I"m capable of doing the work to get this old lady running again but I"m wondering if anyone has any insight into what I just looked at.
One last thing, is it practical to think I can buy a crimping tool and fabricate my own hydraulic hoses? Can the threaded fittings at the ends of the hoses be reused with new hoses and collars?
Thanks,
Bart in NJ

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sbin

03-25-2008 10:35:53




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 Re: Case 580 CK, early 70's in reply to Barchiola, 03-24-2008 16:02:45  
I bought a mid 70's 580c because parts are so readily available and cheap.Someone told me Case built more 580 model backhoes than Ford made of all backhoe models.
A diesel rebuild kit is about $600, power steering cylinders with tierod ends $180, cylinder rebuild kit for the power steering $11.

Hope the price the price of the machine you are looking at is very low.If you have spare time and some tools you can get it in usable condition.

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jdemaris

03-25-2008 05:43:27




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 Re: Case 580 CK, early 70's in reply to Barchiola, 03-24-2008 16:02:45  
You didn't mention if diesel or gas? The 188 diesels in the 580CKS tend to throw #3 connecting rod. I have seen many. Last one I bought that was locked up had a rod that hit the camshaft and broke it in half.

Did you just buy this on Ebay? I was watching one recently in NJ that wasn't running.

In regard to hoses - you'd be wasting time and money trying to make your own. Just buy premade hoses in standard lengths and they are dirt-cheap.
They come with male pipe thread ends but you can buy adapters to make them fit anything. Many of the those premade hoses are cheaper than you can buy just hose by the foot.

Steering is not hydrostatic - it is hydraulic.

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jonjon

03-25-2008 11:34:31




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 Re: Case 580 CK, early 70's in reply to jdemaris, 03-25-2008 05:43:27  
Local Case dealer says hydrostatic it is.



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jdemaris

03-25-2008 12:11:18




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 Re: Case 580 CK, early 70's in reply to jonjon, 03-25-2008 11:34:31  
The Case dealer can call it whatever they want. So can anybody, I guess. The word "hydrostatic" simply refers to the ability of liquids to equalize. So, from that very old and broad defintion - any hydraulic system is hydrostatic. Do you call the front-end loader on a tractor, or a backhoe - hydrostatic - or do you call it hydraulic? Technically, both are correct.

When the word "hydrostatic" got popular around tractors - it was a reference to something quite different than a conventional "hydraulic pump and motor/cylinder" system. The conventional hydraulic system is usually low pressure and high flow - usually under 2500 PSI. The hydrostatic system was often low flow and extreme high pressure - often well over 10,000 PSI. In the context of tractors, I first remember hearing about it in regard to hydrostatic transmissions in the 1960s. It's kind of funny since we're discussing a Case. Case made several hydraulic-drive tractors - with low pressure hydraulic pumps and gear-motors - and made a point at one time that they were NOT hydrostatic - and therefore not subject to the heat and wear problems that hydrostatic systems had. The steering on the Case uses a moderately low-pressure, high-flow gear power-steering pump hooked to conventional hydraulic cylinders. The control circuit is done with a steering-wheel hooked to a small hydraulic pump. But, as a marketing scheme - it seems many call any steering system "hydrostatic" as long as there is no mechancial connection between the steering wheel and the front wheels.

And maybe it's all moot since I don't know what the word means to you, or to anyone at your Case dealer. I suspect they are just repeating something they read somewhere.

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Jim B

03-24-2008 19:08:45




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 Re: Case 580 CK, early 70's in reply to Barchiola, 03-24-2008 16:02:45  
As far as I know the 580CK used the 188cu inch Case Diesel. Ours is a 1968 and has the 188.

This engine is quite bulletproof. I suspect that cylinder may have been nearly liquid-locked with fuel or rain water. When cranked for starting the push rod(s) or connecting rod may get bent when the valve couldn't open. This happened to the Ford 429 in our dump truck because the (above-frame mounted) fuel tank filled level was above the carb and the float didn't fully shut off the fuel flow. So the gas ran into the opened intake valve leaving just enough fuel to lock the exhaust valve. Which bent the push rod when the cam tried to open the valve.

The steering is a hydrostatic system. The steering wheel is attached to a combination manual pump and control valve assembly. With a dead engine, no pump pressure, the steering will still function if there is oil and the plumbing is intact. Although if the machine is not moving the wheel is nearly impossible to turn manually. If turned slowly, or with no oil, it will just go round & round.

Don't be too concerned about the decomposing outer sheath on the hydraulic hoses. That layer is there mostly for abrasion resistance and it rots over time due to exposure to the ozone in the atmosphere. Hose only needs replaced when it leaks oil. Yes you can reuse the fittings if you have the right equipment and new collars... but most fittings are designed with the collar being crimped onto the fitting as a preassembly before swaging onto the hose. You'll need to find a swage machine for real cheap to make it worthwhile.

Good Luck, if you buy the Ol' girl.
We're all here to help you bring Her back to life. We consider ours the best-buy on the farm.
And welcome to Case ownership.

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jonjon

03-24-2008 17:45:37




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 Re: Case 580 CK, early 70's in reply to Barchiola, 03-24-2008 16:02:45  
Can't remember if that has 188 or 207. I think its got the 207 engine, I would find out why the pushrods are bent first. I think I paid about 3,500 for the hose machine in the shop it was used. Steering I'm not sure about I have the same setup on some farm tractors repairable but not cheap.



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Barchiola

03-25-2008 19:01:00




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 Re: Case 580 CK, early 70's in reply to jonjon, 03-24-2008 17:45:37  
Thanks for the help guys. I may talk to the owner tomorrow to make an offer but it will be a lot less than he"s asking. I don"t mind doing the work but it has to be a reasonable deal to make it worthwhile.
Regards,
Bart



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