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HELP Case 300

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caserupman

03-11-2008 17:45:24

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I am loosing tranmission/hydrolic oil. I can put about a couple of gallons in an and let the tractor sit and it leaks out to the point the hydrolics wont work. The leak I have found is around the PTO shift shaft seal where you pull up on a big pin to engage the PTO. Is this hydrolic oil are rear end oil? And if it is how do I replace this seal?

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Joe (Wa)

03-13-2008 12:52:43

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Re: Roger ... mEl .... HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

I just crawled out of bed, took me 10 mins to get page 2 loaded on this forum and I read comments that I woudn't have believed either one of you would have made.

Am I still asleep, someone has hi-jacked you handles, or just misreading your comments?

View the side pix below, I positioned the dipsticks to show the normal full level in the torque tube reservoir and the transmission sump.

The normal full level in the torque tube reservoir is just about 3-1/4" below the top of the cover, that is well above the drive shaft seals. In fact, if I remember right, the hyd oil is right near the top of the clutch pack & 3R gear train.

Shaft seals do leak, baring mechanical damage per mEL mostly they weep when the tractor is layed up. I don't even have the oil line hooked up on my hitch, but still get about a gal transfer a year on this tractor.

I am going to adjust the clutch pack on this tractor while it is down for other things. If I get time today or tomorrow will pull the cover and post a pix of the oil level.

This puter might die soon, doesn't like YT much anymore doesn't like my pixs?, I'll start a new post on page one.

Joe

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mEl

03-13-2008 15:45:27

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Re: Roger ... mEl .... HELP Case 300 in reply to Joe (Wa), 03-13-2008 12:52:43

Joe, of course you are right on the oil levels, the front compartment carries a real high oil level and can leak while idle. The pictures should clear it up for anyone. The fact is that over the yrs, 46 with my present and only employer, I as Roger have been factory trained regularily updating as new models were introduced since 1962. I have seen more than most and have had to work on any one of the three possibilities for leakage. Even with my experience I can also screw up, recently , even on the first page of this forum, I told a gent that he could use a 188-201 in a 500B, after posting I remembered that the tractor in question had a two bolt starter and had to correct myself!!! mEl

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Joe (Wa)

03-13-2008 19:01:32

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Re: Roger ... mEl .... HELP Case 300 in reply to mEl, 03-13-2008 15:45:27

Yeah mEL, I know how that goes. I would get factory certified on a Sulzer and end up on a ship with Colt-Pielsticks for the next 5 years.

I must have been with a hundred different brands of diesels in my career. All were the same and all were different.

Joe

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caserupman

03-13-2008 05:44:56

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

Sorry for the confusion mEL. I should have ran home after work, and checked the oil as of the other day when I stated it was full. I knew I had checked the oil a while back when I changed it, and I just figured it was still that way, since I was not loosing 90W oil. I had no idea that the front Hydrolic oil could spill over into the rear end somehow. I am a pretty handy person but I am learning about tractor gears. Now I guess we are safe to say that this is most likely whats happening and now what is the most likely area to be looked at or fixed first? The piston Seals? An blade or disc hooked to the rear will leak down over night. Now the question is How do I fix this and where do I get the parts.

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mEl

03-13-2008 04:15:03

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

Go re read all the posts Roger, You are correct in stating that the seals are well above oil level, but they are an opportunity for leakage if the unit is being run, and if its not going to be then the rockshaft seal is not an issue either. We try to cover all bases to help . I have seen the snap rings come out of their grooves and go back and damage the front seal on the trans input shaft. Also the pto seal retainers will occasionally come off the rear of the trans top shaft and get chewed up by the ring gear. The bottom line is that I posted in my very earliest post that the rockshaft seal was to be checked as that was a common problem, most likely there is some scoring as well in the cylinder barrel. The bigger point is that all of us with years of experience were scratching our heads because the info we were getting assured us that the rear level was not overfull, an impossibility with the leakage being at the area described. Point is, if we are going to be helpful we need good info. several others here can attest to the confusion this has caused. sincerely, mEl

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Roger (Mi)

03-13-2008 01:47:25

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Replace the rockshaft 3 point piston seal in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

Your hydraulic oil is leaking past the 3 point lift rockshaft piston seal. It's leaking so badly that it's filling the rearend with hydraulic oil. Remove the 3 point rockshaft housing, and replace the piston seal. Problem solved! Replacing the seals between the torque tube and transmission and rearend is senseless! Those seals (one at the torque tube, one on the PTO shaft) are well above any oil level. If either of those seals are worn out, you would still need to park your tractor on a 60 degree angle regularly or flip it upside down to cause any substantial oil transfer. I was a school teacher but Case mechanic in the summers with training at Racine for over 30 years. Good luck.

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Roger (Mi)

03-16-2008 00:25:38

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My bad in reply to Roger (Mi), 03-13-2008 01:47:25

Should have look closely at your pictures. Obviously, you're not using the 3 point lift (no lift arms attached). Whenever there is massive transfer of hydraulic oil into the transmission, it's the 3 point lift piston seal. As mentioned by others (mEl), it's likely the seal between the torque tube and transmission. Could also be the seal under the rockshaft cover that seals the input shaft to the PTO shaft. However, those two shafts turn in unison except when using the hand clutch. The wear on that seal should be miminal. However, if the seal carrier came out of the transmission input shaft (it's pressed in), the transfer of hydraulic oil into the transmission would be substantial. As mentioned before, the only other way for transfer to occur is the seal between the torque tube (transmission input shaft) and transmission. The easiest way to check that seal is to pull the transmission gear shift cover. Make sure the hydraulic oil is at the proper level in the torque tube and look for seepage around the transmission shaft into the transmission. If it's bad, you'll need to split the tractor to replace it.

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caserupman

03-12-2008 18:35:28

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

My tractor is a 56 310 Utility also.

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caserupman

03-12-2008 18:33:05

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

OK, Maybe We are getting somewhere here, and thanks for the reply thus far. When I rebuilt the Motor approx 4 years ago. I read the manual and checked the hydrolic fluid with the dipstick that is located near the gear shifter, and filled it to full by the dipstick. I did the same in the rear end, drained out the old milky oil that had probably been in there for fifty years, and put in new 90W to correct level occording to the rear big dipstick under the seat. Since then Every time I use the tractor (approximately ever month or so) I have to refill the hydrolic oil in order for the hydrolic lift to start working again, because I am loosing hydro oil through this hole (PTO shift shaft seal). Every time I go to the tractor this is the only place where it is leaking with a big puddle under it. Now after reviewing yall's comments, I guess I am safe to say that some type of seal between the front hydrolic resevior and the rear gear oil housing is causing the hydro oil to leak into the gear housing oil? Am I correct on this? Maybe the piston seals someone told me?
This would explain where my hydro oil is going, because it is overfilling the rear gear resevoir and is mixing with the 90W oil and overflowing out the shift shaft seal hole. I assume that there is only probably hydro oil in the rear end now as I have put probably 15 gallons through the tractor since I changed the rear end oil and it has probably flushed all the 90W oil out. I had no idea these two could mix. Now is this correct and how do I fix it? Again,Thanks for help thus far.

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Joe (Wa)

03-12-2008 19:41:51

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-12-2008 18:33:05

Go down to the bottom of this thread and read mEL's response, it is spot on.

If you can't figure out if it is the hitch piston leaking or the drive shaft seals leaking do the hitch piston first, Least work & very likely if the hitch leaks down.

Bad news, it is probably both. Drive shaft seals are often weep leakers, liveable if tractor isn't used for hard pulling. That's just my opinion.

Joe

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Joe (Wa)

03-12-2008 15:03:03

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

You don't say what model 300 you have, these pixs are a '56 310 utility tractor. If you have a general purpose tractor like the model 311, the dipsticks are the same and the oil levels as measure from the top down are the same.

The utility tractor axles are mounted higher on the transmission case and are not part of the sump for an oil level check. The general purpose tractor axles are mounted lower and are flooded. That is the difference between transmission gear oil capacity �4 gals for the former and �7 gals for the latter.

Oil levels are checked, not running and dipsticks threaded all the way in.

There is quite a lot of oil throw in the transmission when the tractor is running. You have a marginal or worse PTO shifter seal but that has nothing to do with internal migration of the hydraulic oil.

mEL covered the oil migration probabilities except possibly a cracked casting, (extremely unlikely) and it would just result in an elevated transmission oil level anyway.

Joe

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wayne2

03-12-2008 21:10:59

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to Joe (Wa), 03-12-2008 15:03:03

LISTEN to Joe!!!!

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mEl

03-12-2008 15:23:01

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to Joe (Wa), 03-12-2008 15:03:03

Thank you Joe for the pictures showing the levels and the shot from the rear and the oil level being at pto shaft level show that it should not be possible for oil to constantly leak from the pto engagement shaft. At any rate, it is not possible for light hydraulic oil to leak from that area as it is a 90 wt reservoir that lubes the pto, unless that reservoir is drastically overfull, which I have seen, but it has been before stated that that reservoir is at the proper level, none running out the bell, pto shifter shaft seeping light oil, getting rid of vast amounts of oil but can't see where its going??? Sorry got me !! Anyway joe, nice job on the tractor, looks good

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Joe (Wa)

03-12-2008 17:41:21

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to mEl, 03-12-2008 15:23:01

mel, I agree with your posts.

As far as I know any loss of hydraulic oil in the torque tube that doesn't hit the ground ends up in the transmission sump and then hits the ground through the axle, brake, pto seals or simply overflows out the breather under the seat.

Joe

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mEl

03-12-2008 04:13:03

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

Unless I am not understanding something, the 300 series tractors lubed the PTO with the rear #90 oil from the four speed, You say you are losing large quantities from a seepy seal??, catch the oil in a pan and see if it matches what you have to put in. These tractors are not that complex that finding where that vast amount of oil is going should be difficult, it's either transferring internal to where it don't belong or coming outside. If it goes front it runs out the bell housing, if it goes back it leaks into the 4 speed and would show up as overfull there and would be diluting the #90 trans oil. Can you post pictures of that oil seep???

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wayne2

03-11-2008 20:13:41

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

Hyd. oil goes in to r side above shift lever 1/2 " sq drive w/dipstick!! I'm loosing 90wt out axel seals but _amned if I'm going there!!!! Luck W

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alanwiggins

03-11-2008 20:18:18

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to wayne2, 03-11-2008 20:13:41

no it goes closeer to seat if you look back to yesterday i asked about hyd fluid and some one sent me reat picture that explain

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wayne2

03-11-2008 20:24:37

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to alanwiggins, 03-11-2008 20:18:18

Not to cause problems!! yours got dip stick, I been filling mine good long time1 W Maybe It's A B

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caserupman

03-11-2008 19:43:34

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

The level is correct on the rear gear box. my leak is coming out of the shift shaft when you engage the pto to come on. Its the only place on the tractor I can find that is leaking and I keep losing large quantaties of Hydrolic oil over several days seeping out. It looks very clear like new hydro oil. Its not rear end oil. I am not sure how all the gears and hydrolics are set up but thats the only leak I see and I am losing hydro oil somewhere fast. This must be the location but how do I fix it?

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mEl

03-11-2008 18:13:05

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Re: HELP Case 300 in reply to caserupman, 03-11-2008 17:45:24

Did you check the transmission oil level in the rear 4 speed section of the transmission, it is the 1 1/2 plug just ahead and to the left of the seat and on top of the trans case. If this is way overfull the piston seals for the 3 point hitch if equipped could be leaking the Hyd oil back into the 4 speed, there are also two seals at the front input shaft to the tranny and a sleeve at the rear of the top tranny shaft that seals the pto drive shaft. If equipped with a 3 point check to see if it leaks down and if it does, there is a good chance the piston seals are leaking. When you say it is leaking out the pto enhgagement shaft that says to me that the level in the rear is much higher than it should be please check and advise us as to the outcome. mEl

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