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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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case 300 wont start, low compression?

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Chris Smith

02-24-2008 20:03:30




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gentlemen, i have a case 300 with a G148. when i aquired the tractor it didnt have enough power to move itself, but it would run. i found a couple of burnt valves and had the head rebuilt with new valves. replaced the intake/exhaust and head gasket as well as the exhaust manifold (it had rotted out, i think it caused the burnt valves). after i got it put back together it ran great. just long enough to dig in a water main, then it started losing power. to the point it wouldnt move itself again and eventually it wouldnt start. i found a bunch of rust in the tank, changed the fuel filter and had the tank epoxied. still wouldnt start. i noticed that gas would spit out of the carburator during cranking so i rebuilt it, still wouldnt start. it was cranking kind of slow (even with a fresh battery)so i had the starter rebuilt, still spits gas out of the carb during cranking. i have replaced the plugs and gapped them to .025". replaced the points and gapped them to .020". adjusted the valve lash to .014" across the board. triple checked the timing and firing order. i have checked the compression and found each cylinder to have 55-60 psi. i double checked the head bolt torque and it was ok. i know it only has 7.5:1 compression but that is pretty low. surely this has to be the reason it wont start. what is the minimum compression pressure for these series engines? anyone have any other suggestions or things to look for? thanks -chris

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mEl

02-25-2008 18:22:03




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-24-2008 20:03:30  
Don't overlook a sheared cam key that is letting the cam out of time, that would explain the backwash from the carb and the low compression. mEl



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Chris Smith

02-26-2008 01:03:41




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to mEl, 02-25-2008 18:22:03  
found what is sure to be the problem. like mEl suggested, the cam key has sheared off. tried turning the nut that hold the cam gear on and the cam turns but not the gear!! pulled the valve cover to verify that the valves were in fact moving and they are. i am absolutly floored. this is the first time i have ever seen anything like this. hopefully i didnt damage any of the valves with the cam slipping like that. thanks for all the help guys. it is very much appreciated!! -chris

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mEl

02-26-2008 03:28:01




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-26-2008 01:03:41  
Chris, If the keyway is not damaged or is just a little loose, get a new hardened key, clean the end of the cam and the gear thoroughly and clean and prime with loctite metal prep and put loctite 271 on interior of the gear and on the shaft Install the gear, loctite the nut and torque to spec. Then take a heat gun and heat the assembly till real warm to the touch, that will quickly harden up the loctite. don't use an excess of loctite so as to not get it into the cam bearing. mEl

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Chris Smith

02-27-2008 17:50:02




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to mEl, 02-26-2008 03:28:01  
when i removed the cam gear today to repair what i thought was a sheared key, i noticed that the key and keyways are in perfect shape. it is the gear that is damaged. the center hub that the camshaft nose goes into is cracked at the base of the gear, all the way around. so my new question is, what models did the 148 come in? i need to find a tractor that is being parted out and im not familiar with what models came with what engines. does anyone have a good source for case parts that they would like to share?? thanks again. -chris

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Joe (Wa)

02-27-2008 23:37:12




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-27-2008 17:50:02  
The 148 cid was used in 300, 300B, 400B series and maybe others up to end 1959 model year. The cam gear on the above tractors includes the governor weight already riveted in place. Case p/n VTA857, cross-ref p/n G37066.

VA series 124 cid engines were changed to the same cam gear above with gov wt sometime in 1949 but there was some later carryover. The way to tell the difference: Earlier VA series cam gear accomodated a flyball gov, as opposed to riveted weight like yours, and had a separate round access cover bolted to the front of the timing cover so you could remove the gov and had access to the cam gear without removing the timing cover. Later VA series with the cam gear + wt you need has the same timing cover p/n VT334 as the 148 engine.

The cam gear alone w/o the weight is Case p/n VT540, cross-ref p/n A28900. P/n A28900 was changed later to the p/n above G37066. That simply means that the gear w/o wt was discontinued and you had to buy the gear with wt installed as an assembly but it may be in someone's inventory under any of those p/n's.

Most 1960 and later 148 cid are 148B engines, larger crank journals, not sure about the cam.

Joe

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Joe (Wa)

02-26-2008 07:07:37




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to mEl, 02-26-2008 03:28:01  
Thanks for the fix mEL.

Chris, keep that block expansion plug on the blind end of the cam in mind when you remount the gear.

Joe



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Rich In Garrett

02-25-2008 16:30:26




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-24-2008 20:03:30  
Chris 2&2 CAN'T MAKE 7. This is probably the dumbest suggestion. Take the muffler off an crank it. Think about it.. With out fire you got an autoelectric air compressor pushing against a possibly blocked exhaust, causing the liquid fuel that won't venturi out of the carb. Just a thought.



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Chris Smith

02-25-2008 16:57:08




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Rich In Garrett, 02-25-2008 16:30:26  
rich, i have the muffler removed already. i wanted to rule that out right off the bat. thanks -chris



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Rich In Garrett

02-25-2008 16:30:17




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-24-2008 20:03:30  
Chris 2&2 CAN'T MAKE 7. This is probably the dumbest suggestion. Take the muffler off an crank it. Think about it.. With out fire you got an autoelectric air compressor pushing against a possibly blocked exhaust, causing the liquid fuel that won't venturi out of the carb. Just a thought.



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Rich In Garrett

02-25-2008 16:29:38




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-24-2008 20:03:30  
Chris 2&2 CAN'T MAKE 7. This is probably the dumbest suggestion. Take the muffler off an crank it. Think about it.. With out fire you got an autoelectric air compressor pushing against a possibly blocked exhaust, causing the liquid fuel that won't venturi out of the carb. Just a thought.



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Joe (Wa)

02-24-2008 21:34:17




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-24-2008 20:03:30  
Yeah, that is real low. 148 cid gas in good shape should be up near 140 - 150 psi.

Compression pressure depends on cranking speed, engine temperature, and compression ratio. You mentioned it was cranking slowly, is it turning over fast enough to get a good compression test now? Assuming that low readings, should really whip right over. You might want to disengage the clutch and lock out the hydraulic oil pump, see if there is some drag back there slowing the crank speed down.

Air filter not plugged? Intake pipe at the carb is disconnected and the choke fly is fully open for your tests?

Your rings may be too far gone for a wet check but if enough cranking speed, put about a tablespoon of oil in the cylinder, let it set a few minutes so the oil can weep down on the rings. If the pressure goes up, rings are leaking bye. No pressure rise is valves leaking or rings completely shot.

You can expect to get some gas back through the carb when cranking for long period and it doesn't fire.

Joe

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Chris Smith

02-25-2008 10:53:08




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Joe (Wa), 02-24-2008 21:34:17  
after the starter was rebuilt, it cranks fast like a new one. plenty fast for a compression test i feel. i have the pump removed from the tractor completely. for the test i had the carb completely removed from the intake so there wouldnt be any air restrictions. i did try to add oil to the cylinders but i seen no inprovement in compression. prior to removing the head for service i noticed no oil burning. the cylinders looked very nice with no ridge or carbon buildup at the top. after i reassembled the engine and got it running (and even up until it died) i noticed no oil burning either. since the head has been completly rebuilt and the valves are adjusted properly, i would have a hard time beliving i was losing compression through the valves, but if the rings were bad you would think it would have burnt some oil. the thing is each cylinder reads within 5psi of each other. could i have blown the whole head gasket (i have no oil in the water, vise versa btw)? could all the cylinders became glazed? what would casue that? would i be able to re-hone the cylinders or would i have to replace the rings also? thanks for the replies. -chris

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Joe (Wa)

02-25-2008 17:57:19




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-25-2008 10:53:08  
Den is right, a leakdown is more accurate than a compression check and you have the added benefit of trying to find the leak by listening for air escaping.

I just can't believe the compression is that low w/o something being obvious like plugged intake or valves set wrong.

You say the cylinders look good with no ridge so there is no scoring. In that case, the wet check should give some indication of ring wear or glazing.

A plugged exhaust will affect starting and running but doesn't have anything to do with the low compression check.

With that kind of compression loss you would have to had some serious blowbye out the oil fill in addition to oil burning, fowled plugs, etc when it was running whether the problem was rings or valve guides so it seems we are back to lack of intake air or valve timing. You have eliminated external intake air by taking the carb off.

If you have any doubts about your valve setting, I would check that again. A quick check, 0.002" either way from 0.014" lash is good enough for this.

#1 TDC check: #1-I&E, #2-I, #3-E.

One full rev.

#4 TDC check: #2-E, #3-I, #4-I&E.

Nothing found here a leakdown is probably your best bet.

Joe

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Chris Smith

02-25-2008 20:09:50




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Joe (Wa), 02-25-2008 17:57:19  
guys,
great thinking. i didnt think about the cam timing being off. when i checked my lash i brought each cylinder up to TDC on its compression stroke to adjust that cylinder. i will recheck the valve lash using the procedure you gave me. when i do this, if the valves look like they are a little further into the cycle, it will tip me off to the possibility of the cam key being sheared. if that yields no results i will borrow a leakdown tester and try that. thanks for all the help! -chris

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Den N Ms

02-25-2008 12:41:14




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-25-2008 10:53:08  
Chris, You could do a cylinder leak down test on it to determine what is causing the problems.



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Den N Ms

02-24-2008 21:33:27




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 Re: case 300 wont start, low compression? in reply to Chris Smith, 02-24-2008 20:03:30  
Chris,Does it use a bunch of oil?It sounds like the intake valves are leaking by.Thats why its spittin back out of the carb,and your low compression.If you just have had the valves ground and seated,and have them adjusted correctly.The oil consumption if if does could have built up carbon under your valves causing them to leak.Thus power loss and not letting your engine start.



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