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Gear grinding on shifting--VAC

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Case Kernel

09-23-2007 12:50:00




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Posted about this problem just less than a yr ago. Responses I got suggested that I just have to live with it, as it is the nature of the beast(See post dated 12-22-06). I've found that by lifting my blade (hydraulics) and when under pressure, it shifts without grinding. It has to be under load, however, or it will not relieve the problem. I'm wondering why such maneuvering would affect the transmission?

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Doc Larry

09-24-2007 17:07:53




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Case Kernel, 09-23-2007 12:50:00  
Your "braking stick" is a much simpler solution than splitting the tractor. A pilot bearing could be intermittent, but a warped pressure plate or disc, or grease on the disc, are also possible. All require splitting the tractor if you really want to fix it.
On the flip side, I split my 2424 IHC recently, and to be honest, it wasn't that big of a deal in my shop with concrete floors and lots of wood blocks and jacks...

Larry

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chad dickerson

11-14-2007 17:33:37




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Doc Larry, 09-24-2007 17:07:53  
hi larry, my name is chad dickerson from mcclave colorado. i am working on a 2424 for a guy and was wondering how do you adjust the clutch on that tractor if there is any? if you wouldnt mind helping me out. please thank you very much



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JustIn Case

09-24-2007 14:48:05




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Case Kernel, 09-23-2007 12:50:00  
I have 1946 VAC i got as a family heirloom. My mothers family bought it new in 1946 and I am the second owner. It was one of several VACs that my uncles farmed with. They used an Allis Chalmers Roto Baler to put all of their hay up. Each time the baler was ready to finish a bale you needed to stop, shift to neutral, let the clutch out finish the bale, push the clutch in shift into gear and off you go again to make another bale. This is where Live PTO would have been really good. To get around the grinding of the gears they removed the belt pulley from the VAC that they used for the Roto Baler. The removal of the belt pulley significantly reduced the inertia of the now pulleyless shaft so it stopped much sooner, therefore much less grinding. I have since put a pulley back on to make the old tractor whole again. As found in my Case manual the later VACs that didn"t have the hydraulic pump under the belt pulley were set up with a belt pulley that could be engaged/disengaged by loosening a lockscrew and sliding the pulley in to engage or out to disengage and the re-locking the lockscrew. It"s my undrstanding that you don"t have that feature, but maybe you"d be interested in the old remove the pulley method. On a side note,,,in later years my uncles had a WD Allis with the throwout to stop your ground motion (kinda like live PTO) they tried the WD on the Roto Baler and didn"t like it! Not because of the clutch and PTO but they found the WD to be "awkward and clumsy" compared to the handling and manueverability of the little VAC and went back to baling with the little VAC. I know I got kinda lengthy,,, but amusing that the little Case was preferred over The Allis to pull an Allis Baler. Jim

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Walt Davies

09-24-2007 13:37:47




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Case Kernel, 09-23-2007 12:50:00  
On my 43 SI I used my foot to stop the pulley wheel to shift it without grinding gear. On my LA it has a brake on the hand clutch that does this for me.
Lets face it it the nature of the beast and you need to learn how to get around it or live with it.. There are many ways to stop the spinning Wheel.
Walt



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Case Kernel

09-24-2007 18:20:00




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Walt Davies, 09-24-2007 13:37:47  
Walt, you may be right, but I want to make sure I at least have searched out the matter completely. Up to this point I haven't been convinced that "acceptance" is the first order of business. I at least want to have the "courage to change the things I can", before "I accept the things I can't change" and I pray and confer with other "tractorologists in the quest for "the wisdom to know the difference", ala the Serenity Prayer.

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Doc Larry

09-24-2007 05:29:12




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Case Kernel, 09-23-2007 12:50:00  
I think GROMO is probably right, although I bet you've already adjusted the clutch. Sounds like the clutch isn't releasing properly or the pilot bearing is bad. If inertia of the gears were the sole problem, you would only notice the grinding when the transmission is warmed up.
Larry



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Case Kernel

09-24-2007 08:32:23




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Doc Larry, 09-24-2007 05:29:12  
Yes, I have tried adjusting the clutch and does not seem to make any difference. With clutch disengaged I notice a pulsating of the belt pulley and a heavy drag on it if you try to rotate it, like something continues to grab. If it were the pilot bearing, would it stick only sometimes and not others and account for the randomness of the activity? It does seem like the clutch is not releasing it completely, butI have to let the clutch out quite a ways before it engages the gear box that moves the tractor. So the drive part of the transmission seems to be fully disengaged, but the belt pulley and shifting gears still seem implicated in the moving parts. Does that narrow down the problem and suggest a probable diagnois?

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Casekernel

09-23-2007 20:21:46




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Case Kernel, 09-23-2007 12:50:00  
What is baffling to me is the random nature of the problem. Sometimes the pulley spins and other times it doesn't with the clutch disengaged. Sometimes I can go through several shift cycles with no problem and then again will have a number of times with problems. I put the pulley on just to try it and it takes considerable force, when it's spinning, to stop it. At those times it will not stop by itself no matter how long you wait. When you stop it by hand it remains stationary and shiftable, at least for that time. Something does not seem right here. Can't imagine that this is "normal" for this make of a tractor. If no gear is implicated when the cluth is depressed why doesn't it eventually release and stop?

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GROMO

09-24-2007 05:18:47




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Casekernel, 09-23-2007 20:21:46  
SOUNDS LIKE THE CLUTCH IS STICKING, NOT DISENGAGING. MIGHT NEED TO BE ADJUSTED.



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Bob

09-23-2007 13:18:14




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Case Kernel, 09-23-2007 12:50:00  
The spinning gears have inertia, and take time to "coast down" so you can shift without "grinding" the gears. Operating the hydraulics uses up this inertia so the gears stop SOONER.

My late Uncle made up a lever with a wooden brake pad that pressed against the belt pulley when the clutch was depressed, stopping the belt pulley/transmission so grind-free shifting could be accomplished.



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Case Kernel

09-24-2007 08:48:15




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Bob, 09-23-2007 13:18:14  
Bob, I borrowed your late uncle's idea and fashioned a "braking stick" with a beveled edge for the pulley stop and fulcrumed it so I now have a "foot brake" for the pulley. It is at least a palliative solution to the problem, not a full correction, which I would like to make eventually. Thanks much for the idea. It means, however, that I have to have the belt pulley installed in order to accomplish this manuever.

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Case Kernel

09-23-2007 14:42:28




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Bob, 09-23-2007 13:18:14  
That all makes sense. On my SC, the hand clutch and pad pressure on the belt pulley does that job. I have the belt pulley off now. I wonder with the pulley on, if it would stop sooner or make it worse?



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Joe (Wa)

09-23-2007 18:19:09




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 Re: Gear grinding on shifting--VAC in reply to Case Kernel, 09-23-2007 14:42:28  
The pulley is mass in motion with minimal resistance, act as a small flywheel.

Joe



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