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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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Bosch Injector Pump Question on 400 Tractor

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Doc Larry

07-08-2007 04:55:31




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Okay, my 400 tractor with 251 CID engine has a Bosch injector pump with a round outlet plate on top for the four injector lines. My question is about the fittings between the pump and the lines. On end of the fitting is a compression ring and nut, no problem there. The other end, where I have a leak, has a tapered copper washer to seal the fitting against the plate. Does anyone happen to know what torque this fitting should be tightened to? I'm guessing a fairly low torque so as not to distort the soft copper too much. This is not covered in the Case manual, and I don't have a manual for the pump.

thanks, Larry

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Doc Larry

07-09-2007 20:51:27




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 Re: Bosch Injector Pump Question on 400 Tractor in reply to Doc Larry, 07-08-2007 04:55:31  
Just to follow up, I was able to order the copper seals from the local Bosch pump dealers, but not from CaseIH.

thanks for the help.



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JHH

07-09-2007 16:19:11




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 Re: Bosch Injector Pump Question on 400 Tractor in reply to Doc Larry, 07-08-2007 04:55:31  
One last thought, while we are talking about soft copper.

Did you know how copper wire was invented?

Someone dropped a penny between two Scotchmen!

Thanks to the Scots we can have electricity where ever we can run a wire.



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Doc Larry

07-08-2007 19:14:54




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 Re: Bosch Injector Pump Question on 400 Tractor in reply to Doc Larry, 07-08-2007 04:55:31  
JGarner,

I have been trying to reuse the old washer, and your comments fit perfectly with the problem I"m having, namely, the copper isn"t deforming nicely to form a seal, instead, it"s spalling against the seat when I tighten down the fitting. I"ve tried recutting the copper on a lathe, twice, which has also been difficult. First time held for about 8 hours, the second time (today) didn"t work. I"ll try to find a new washer tomorrow. I don"t think I can get the old one off the fitting without damaging it, so annealing will be a last resort.

I was always fascinated by metallurgy as a kid. Still as much an art as a science, it seems.

Larry

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JGarner

07-08-2007 05:13:10




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 Re: Bosch Injector Pump Question on 400 Tractor in reply to Doc Larry, 07-08-2007 04:55:31  
Its the compression (distortion) that gives you a seal with the copper gasket. We use a gasket like this in some of my company"s products, a lot of disk brake calipers use a flat copper gasket betweeen the flat seal surface on the caliper and the metal connector on the brake line. In my experience as much torque as you can get on the properly size wrench (without a "cheater") for the fitting is adequate.

You didn"t say if you were trying to reuse the old gasket. That may be your problem. Don"t try to reuse these gaskets. When they are compressed the copper work hardens and makes it more difficult to compress the next time. If you can no longer get these gaskets from Case, try taking your propane torch and heating the gasket to cherry red, then quench it in water. This will anneal the copper and make it soft again.

Good luck.

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JHH

07-08-2007 10:29:21




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 Re: Bosch Injector Pump Question on 400 Tractor in reply to JGarner, 07-08-2007 05:13:10  
You will need to allow that copper washer to cool slowly if you want to anneal it, cooling it rapidly will temper it which makes it harder.



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JGarner

07-08-2007 13:30:33




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 Re: Bosch Injector Pump Question on 400 Tractor in reply to JHH, 07-08-2007 10:29:21  
That is true for carbon steel, but not copper. Slow cooling will actually make copper a little harder than water quenching. At least that is what we were taught in my engineering metallurgy class. Has to do with grain structure growth in the metal's lattice.



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JHH

07-08-2007 14:40:58




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 Re: Bosch Injector Pump Question on 400 Tractor in reply to JGarner, 07-08-2007 13:30:33  

JGarner said: (quoted from post at 13:30:33 07/08/07) That is true for carbon steel, but not copper. Slow cooling will actually make copper a little harder than water quenching. At least that is what we were taught in my engineering metallurgy class. Has to do with grain structure growth in the metal's lattice.


I stand corrected, I missed that class. But then I goggled and found this Link

which adds more light to the subject.
Enjoy - JHH

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