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Advice needed on VA tranny removal

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Kestrel CT

02-18-2007 14:06:49




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Anyone out there have any tips or tricks on separating the transmission from the torque tube on a VAI ? The rear end is off.
It won't budge past maybe a 1/4" all the way around no matter how I balance and suport it with jacks, timbers, etc. while pulling and yanking hard.

I would rent a hoist but I doubt that would even do it.

Now my back hurts too much to continue. Any help appreciated...thank you

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Joe (Wa)

02-20-2007 11:29:40




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to Kestrel CT, 02-18-2007 14:06:49  
Try using plastic felling wedges, one on each side, pounded into the gap. If they don't break it loose, at least, they will put some tension on it and help keep it aligned so you don't bend the shaft.

Another option may be to push on the end of the studs with bottle jacks if you can get the jack base against something solid. If the wedges are used, you can probably get away with one jack, alternating sides and keeping tension on the wedges. Need a nut on the stud to kept from mushrooming the end.

A couple of longer studs would be helpful for alignment and support especially on reassembly to help line up the shaft & splined coupling and pull the housings together.

If nothing else, finish up you rearend work and get the wheels back on it to help support the transmission weight then all you have deal with is tipping when the flange comes off the longer studs.

Joe

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kestrel CT

02-21-2007 15:35:05




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to Joe (Wa), 02-20-2007 11:29:40  
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After sitting on the floor for 20 minutes this morning studying the situation, I used tip # 5 from Joe. Borrowed a tire jack from my Tacoma and placed it horizontally between a flange on the bottom of the clutch housing and the bottom center stud on the tranny. Pumped it up and wa la...she moved out like a greased watermelon !!
No rust on the shaft. I think it was just the physics of moving heavy objects without any mechanical advantage (engine hoist).
Duh.....

I may attempt reassemble tomorrow with the new gasket (w/
Permetex grey silicon ). I have two long studs (Joe's tip #3) in place and will pray to the spline gods tonight for a peaceful re-
alignment.

Thanks guys so much for help in my first tractor splitting adventure ! I'm no mechanic but I do have a passionate interest in these old machines. I will be pestering you again.....for sure.

And don't laugh at my rope arrangement..it's an early warning device.

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Joe (Wa)

02-21-2007 18:13:29




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to kestrel CT, 02-21-2007 15:35:05  
Now you're cooking. When you get bored next winter you'll probably want to split it again just for fun, leave the wheels on to support the wt, you won't need an engine hoist.

On the other hand, a hoist is very handy to have around. Try buttering up the little woman. If that don't work, throw a tantrum. Worked for me LOL <:)

Joe



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kestrel CT

02-20-2007 14:11:23




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to Joe (Wa), 02-20-2007 11:29:40  
Great tips. You would laugh if you saw all the wooden shims sticking out of the poor thing. Dismal failure, they just splinter so I'm moving up to the plastic wedges. I do like the idea of buttoning back up the rear end with wheels remounted and then trying to split it. Another day or so and that's what I'll do.

I don't like seeing anything apart that long. Makes me nervous about proper reassembly but it sure is satisfying when its all painted and completed.
Will advise when the mountain moves.....Thanks

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TexasWren

02-20-2007 09:08:33




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to Kestrel CT, 02-18-2007 14:06:49  
When I split my 830 last summer, it was really hard to get it apart. I think that the input shaft was stuck inside the pilot bearing (there was a lot of rust in the bell housing). I went from side to side, gradually wedging wider and wider objects in there. When I got to about 3/4" it suddenly popped free. I have no doubt, as stuck as it was, that if I'd lifted the rear of the tractor, it would have picked the engine up, too! (and then would have broken loose without warning and dropped the engine on the concrete)

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watsonsgotit

02-19-2007 16:17:09




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to Kestrel CT, 02-18-2007 14:06:49  
Thanks for posting the picture. I think that the jack and the blocks are working against you. You really need to pick that transmission up from over head keeping equal pressure all the way around. If you can do this, drive something like a chisel or screwdriver into each side of the seperation evenly. It should slide right apart. An engine lift works great when disassemblying old tractors.



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kestrel CT

02-19-2007 17:15:43




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to watsonsgotit, 02-19-2007 16:17:09  
I think you're right. I've been in denial here trying to coax her out laterally. This is one heavy piece of steel. I just priced engine hoists but can't swing the funding right now.

Northern Tool has a nice 2-ton unit w/ load levelers on sale for $149.00 but the shippin to CT is just as much.

I might go buy a floor jack and give it a try. I need one anyway and can't rig anything from the ceiling, except lights, without spousal approval. Thanks for the insight. Any new ideas, keep me in mind.

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Joe (Wa)

02-18-2007 18:01:05




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to Kestrel CT, 02-18-2007 14:06:49  
The shaft coupler splines may be rusted per Watson's post.

On my VAC, 2 of the flange studs or flange holes (don't remember which) were bodybound so the split had to be straight back.

Try prying with a flat tool at the 1/4" opening at each stud to find the bodybound studs. Helps to take out any studs that you can double nut also. Leave 2 studs, or better yet screw in 2 longer studs, to support the weight and pry it apart.

Joe

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watsonsgotit

02-18-2007 16:31:48




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to Kestrel CT, 02-18-2007 14:06:49  
If you have already removed the transmission from the rear end, the hard part is over. There are I believe 5 bolts holding the torque tube to the transmission. Once you have removed all five it should slide apart. The input shafts on both the torque tube and transmission are splined with a coupler in between. Unless the torque tube has been full of water and the splines are all rusted up, it should slide apart easily. Make sure that you have removed all bolts. Remember, the vac is a simple tractor to work on. If you need another transmission, let me know I have one sitting on the shelf. Make sure that you have the torque tube supported so it does not fall.

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kestrel CT

02-18-2007 19:15:19




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to watsonsgotit, 02-18-2007 16:31:48  
third party image

Thanks guys. It's helpful to hear that it may just be a little rust in there. I won't be so afraid of using some more prying force. All studs stayed in the transmission case except the one pictured sitting on the piece of wood.

There appears to be a short pin or stud, no threads, on the left side that maybe serves to line up the two housings ?

Anyway, I'll try double nutting & removing some studs as Joe mentioned. This is what the battlefield looked like when I shut off the lights tonight.

My original plan was to gently roll the tractor forward a few inches (with a willing helper) leaving the transmission in place sitting on the blocks. No such luck.

All this for a leaky gasket.....obviously part of the hobby addiction.

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olddog

02-20-2007 16:11:59




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to kestrel CT, 02-18-2007 19:15:19  
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Kestrel, this is what you're up against. Mine came apart at the front shaft and it fought a little bit. Just a splined coupling as others have said. If you can wiggle it a little, try cocking it slightly with a little pressure(Emphasis on little) and turning the engine over several times with a crank. If that don't work, mebbe you could take off the shift cover and go thru the hole in the top with skunk pee and a long drift for persuasion.

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kestrel CT

02-20-2007 18:33:36




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to olddog, 02-20-2007 16:11:59  
Aha ! So that's what it looks like. Interesting. Sounds like a clever idea, hand cranking a few times. I had the shift cover off the other day but had no idea I might be able to "wake up " and access the spline coupling. I should be able to get something moving one way or another nowpretty soon.

I like the piece of firewood lending a hand there. Nice natural effect.



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olddog

02-21-2007 04:12:16




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to kestrel CT, 02-20-2007 18:33:36  
Yeah, i'm workin' the other way back, the axles are on stands; and it's quite stable that way. If yours pops loose, make sure your toes are back, because that sure looks top heavy to handle. PS glad this cold snap has broken, 'cause that stick of firewood was in jeopardy.



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TexasWren

02-20-2007 09:38:14




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to kestrel CT, 02-18-2007 19:15:19  
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Don't know if this will help, but I thought I'd show you a view of the splitting stand I made. I already had the dolly wheels from an equipment mover I made (it's good for a few tons, I think) I welded up side stands that bolted to available bolt-holes in the tranny, made out of scrap angle iron, pipe and rebar. They are not bolted to the rolling carriage, so that I can do fine-tuning of the height with the jack in the middle. The front of the tractor is stationary, with wood blocks holding up the front, and a house jack at the rear (again, so I can fine-tune the height.) To roll it back, I used a prybar under the rear wheels. To pull it back together, I used a come-along. Note the long bolts in the side holes to help line it up. Makes it sound easier than it was!

It comes apart a lot easier than it goes back together, but the 830 is a little bigger then the VA, and it has a live PTO, so there's two shafts to line up at once. You really have to get those things precisely aligned (less than 1/16") for them to go back together without damaging anything (especially yourself!!). Things that roll are your friend. NEVER try to muscle it. These are very heavy chunks of metal and very unforgiving of a slip. Think every move through before you do it. Not to get too melodramatic, but your life can literally change in an instant if something falls on you. My finger is still healing from a mistake last year. I got lucky it was only a finger, but as long as it hurts, it reminds me to be careful.

Hope this helps a little.

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cdmn

02-21-2007 19:55:04




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to TexasWren, 02-20-2007 09:38:14  
I think you're lucky those 4 grocery cart wheels held up. Doubt I'd trust them for more than 1000 lbs.



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TexasWren

02-23-2007 05:25:58




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to cdmn, 02-21-2007 19:55:04  
You're being fooled by the size of the tractor. Those casters are cast iron and urethane. Go into Tractor supply and look at the heaviest casters you can buy there. They're twice the size of those. They have 3/8" ball bearings. They weigh about ten pounds each. They are military surplus from Moffet AFB in California, and I've never seen any others like them. I was actually more worried about the house jack than those casters.

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Kestrel CT

02-20-2007 14:00:30




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to TexasWren, 02-20-2007 09:38:14  
Good thing I didn't see your picture a week ago.....I might have shyed away from this project. My God, you have plenty of guts and skill to separate that monster.
The forces at work on my tractor are not as great but still are enough to ruin my day big time. Your description certainly is helpful and brings into focus some good engineering ideas. Great points on the precise alignment when remating and come-
along use.

It looks like you tore off a piece of a fence gate looking for some lumber.

I'll be at it tomorrow. Stay posted. Thanks.....

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Joe (Wa)

02-18-2007 20:33:59




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 Re: Advice needed on VA tranny removal in reply to kestrel CT, 02-18-2007 19:15:19  
"appears to be a short pin or stud, no threads"

Those are locator pins, there will be one directly across on the other side. They don't generally hang you up much coming off but can be a hazzle on reassembly. I usually take them out before mating the flanges back up and then pound them in just before tightening the nuts.

It will be helpful to put a long stud in there where that stud is out and one directly on the other side. Save your back some especially during reassembly.

BTW, really nice work on your stands.

Joe

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