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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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Proper use of compression release...

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Cary Nickel

12-18-2006 11:27:01




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Howdy all, I am hearing conflicting reports locally, but what is the proper use of the compression release on a Case 830? Starting? Stopping? Or both?

When it's cold, I cannot start ours without a shot of ether, and the prior two owners reported the same (one was the dealer, and he admittedly didn't start it much). In fact, the tractor came with a can of starting fluid in the tool box.




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Nedd

12-19-2006 05:58:12




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
I was told by a mechanic that the compression release would allow you to build up oil pressure before starting. For use after the tractor had been sitting more than a few days. I suppose some friction heat would build up in the cylinder. Just a thought.



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djm75

12-19-2006 00:52:17




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
According to the case repair manual the decompressor is only for turning the engine by hand for timing and the alike.



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Cary Nickel

12-18-2006 19:49:33




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
Wow! As always, thanks for all the information. I will have have to try out the many combinations mentioned for the starting procedure, and see if it eliminates the use of ether. I don't particularly care to use ether either (ether either!) if I don't have to, since it's an extra step that probably wasn't factory recommended. I can see where if the compression on an old tractor like ours isn't up to snuff, it might be necessary.

As far as the glow plug goes, it very well might work. All of us physically involved with the tractor so far are probably suffering from operator ignorance..including the fellow who sold it to me. I don't think he knew about the glow plug either, since I learned to start the tractor from him, so I will have to go try turning the key to the "left" and see if anything happens.

At the very least, now that I know there's supposed to be a glow plug there, I can figure out the circuit and make a repair if need be.

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c hess

12-19-2006 06:01:28




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 19:49:33  
One other point concerning starting is if you look on starter of many tractors at cable conection you might find a rusty lock washer due to loose conection an fact steel is poor conducter of current causing loss of current. I like to put cable next to hopefully copp er nut on outside of solenoid than add other wires an than nut. If you can get copper nut that would be even better.Also dont use connecters that you clamp on cables.

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Crank It

12-18-2006 21:24:44




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 19:49:33  
Cary,
The glow plug on a case tractor is actually an intake manifold heater! There is only one plug. It's not like your Ford or Chevy diesel pickup where you have 8 glow plugs. (One in each cylinder) Thats why you can't use ether at the same time as the manifold heater or you will have a KABANG in your intake manifold instead of inside the cylinder head. My experience is to plug in a block heater over night and 95% of your starting troubles are over. Use the manifold heater if your batteries are strong, otherwise, don't waste your charge as it will take a lot of amps to heat. If batteries are weak, go right to the ether and forget the manifold heater. Also, I never saw the benefit of the decompression lever as a starting aid as you NEED compression to build up heat in the cylinder to ignite the diesel fuel. Actually, I think that good batteries and good clean cable connections are the most important part of a good starting 30 Series. I'll take a strong fast crankin engine any day over any type of heater or decompression aid or what have you.
Just my experience with a hard starting 1030. I don't know much, but I know what I know.

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Walt Davies

12-18-2006 18:24:44




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
The Manual on my Kubota L-285 says that the compression release should be used when the battery is low and won't crank the engine over. Onetime it was just that and I did what they said pulled the compression release out spun the engine over and then dropped it back in, the darn thing fired right up on an almost dead battery.

On the big cats its used to bleed the fuel system after you run out of fuel because you didn't watch the tank. Works great for that too.

I don't know of anyone using one to stop and engine other than in an emergancy. Can be used as a Jake brake on a steep hill also. Be careful when doing this but can stop a run-a-way tractor on pretty steep hill.

Walt

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Hawkeye Gold

12-18-2006 16:50:25




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
I put a 930 starter on my 830. With that, compression release and a sniff of ether and it starts in cold weather pretty well. The glo plug does not work on mine.



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Camboted

12-18-2006 16:22:02




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
Not the intended use, I am sure, but it makes a great emergency shut-off when all else fails.



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Camboted

12-18-2006 16:21:56




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
Not the intended use, I am sure, but it makes a great emergency shut-off when all else fails.



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CNESLER

12-18-2006 16:02:22




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
on our old 930 we used to release the compression
when it was cold to let the starter spin the engine over faster while still cranking we would close the compression release and the engine would start without using starting fluid
CNESLER



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JGarner

12-18-2006 13:52:48




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
Cary, we started our 830 at temps of 30 below and colder with ether, but as CHess says, just an extremely short burst from the can is all it takes. About as much as pushing the button down and immediately releasing is all it takes, and don't use it and the glow plugs at the same time. After be brought our 830 back to Central Texas where extreme winter temps didn't go below the low 20s (above) the glow plugs were all we needed.

Some of the guys on here really are down on using ether on the 30 series Cases since too much of a good thing will crack the heads. So use it very saringly and with caution ONLY when the glow plugs aren't enough.

If you have tried the glow plugs to no avail, let the plugs and manifold go back to ambient temp before using the ether. We used it on our 830 for 3 winters in northwestern Colorado with no problems, but as I said very sparingly!!

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Cary Nickel

12-18-2006 14:21:35




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to JGarner, 12-18-2006 13:52:48  
Well, I have learned something new today....the 830 is supposed to have glow plugs? (I wish the dang manual I ordered would get here!!).

It's only been getting down to around 10 degrees here at night..that's a LOT warmer than 30 below!!

I have a feeling that if this 830 has glow plugs, they aren't working, and that might be the problem. Are they supposed to activate with the key switch? There's no other switch on the dash for anything other than the lights.

Reason I ask, is that I have had to re-wire under the dash, because a long ago previous owner (looks like a couple of paint jobs ago, from the paint on the added wiring) had wired in a push button for the starter on the far left side of the dash..bypassed the neutral safety switch and all. I was happy to see that the wiring wasn't hacked up, just the stuff that was disconnected was left hanging under the dash. I figured whomever did it, did it so he/she could stand there on the left side, and shoot the ether into the intake while hitting the start button. I didn't like the idea of possibly getting run over by that big wheel on my right, so I hooked everything back up normal..as best I know. At least the neutral safety switch is back in action, and you have to use the key to start it now...keeps the kids from possibly running over all the other vehicles in the yard, or each other, as well..maybe I'll use that now abandoned momentary contact switch for an "ahh-oogah" horn or something...LOL

Just went outside and took a gander, and I didn't see where the glow plugs would be wired in. Would they be above the injectors, or on the other side of the motor? I didn't see any electrical connections that could be for glow plugs. Perhaps I need to take the "hood" off and look higher?

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GeoMo

12-19-2006 05:11:19




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 14:21:35  
As JGarner stated the glow plug is in the manifold.
Their is a solenoid below the fuel tank with a hot wire to the battery, wire to glow plug and a wire to switch. Jump hot wire to solenoid to switch wire to check solenoid, should hear a click.
It makes a big difference but changing out the 6 volt batteries with 12 volt made a bigger difference.



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JGarner

12-19-2006 05:38:01




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to GeoMo, 12-19-2006 05:11:19  
Two sixs? Our 1963 830 had two 12s and I could have sworn they were in series to make 24 volts. Could have been in parallel to make it like a very big 12v battery with lots of cranking power.

Our 861 Ford diesel had a humongous "Ford" brand battey instead of off the shelf group 24 12v batteries like Case. Could only fit in the Ford battery, they were the only one that supplied it, and they were VERY proud of that fact. When auto batteries were $25 this one was $150!! Another reason I will NEVER own a Ford tractor!

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Cary Nickel

12-19-2006 05:32:16




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to GeoMo, 12-19-2006 05:11:19  
I did notice that "mystery solenoid" mounted to the steel plate behind the motor, and heard it "click" when I turned the key to the "start" position. At the time, the "previous owner installed" remote push button starting switch was still wired in, so when I turned the key to the "start" position, the click from that solenoid was all I heard, but I didn't know what it was for. Now that the starter is wired to the key switch again, the starter kicks in like it's supposed to, obliterating any other noises..

I will trace down those wires and see where they lead. I imagine the glow plug must be threaded into the manifold, so if it's burned out, it must be replaceable...

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JGarner

12-18-2006 18:04:03




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 14:21:35  
Its been a lot of years since I was on this ole' tractor, but yes the key switch activated the glow plugs. Looked at the Case IH site and they have a good drawing of the diesel intake manifold. There shows to be one manifold heater (glow plug) on the bottom in the longitudinal center of the manifold. The glow plug was activated by turning the switch counter clock wise (to the left in oilfield terms). I think you held them on for about 1 minute or so and then turned the key back the other way to try to start it. If its too cold they are worthless!!

The only tractors we had with compression release was our John Deere R and D-2 Cat. Same deal, release the compression until you got the big engine turning good with the pony motor and then released the lever and threw the coals to'er and she started with a cloud of black smoke.

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c hess

12-18-2006 13:06:26




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 Re: Proper use of compression release... in reply to Cary Nickel, 12-18-2006 11:27:01  
They were on origional Case diesel engines an dropped from them later as it was found there was no real reason for them.Only reason i can think of is they do make turning engine for adjustment of valves an other service that may be needed easier for mechanic.Couple other reasons but none in every day use. As for either i know it is frofned on but secret is use sparingly!!!With starter cranking Short a shot as you can -wait an give more if needed.

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