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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum

Oil pump pin

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cranksum

09-27-2007 18:03:53

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Having a problem with no oil pressure on a 39 B. I have checked everything I can think of. I removed the oil filter and there was sluge in the bottom. Cleaned it out and checked all the lines. Fired it up again and still nothing. Removed the valve cover to make sure and still nothing. I realize that the pressure is low 8-10lbs and this is normal. Removed the oil pan. Found the screen in the bottom not on the tube and what appears to be a sheared pin?? Can't find an oil pump or pin to buy. Asumming the pin is from the oil pump where it is turned by the cam. Not sure if I should try to prime the pump and try again. Anyone know what this pin might look like?

The pin I remove from the bottom of the pan is approx. 1 3/8 in with two notches cut close to each end and one end is flat.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Wayne

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cranksum

09-29-2007 08:52:57

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Re: Oil pump pin in reply to cranksum, 09-27-2007 18:03:53

From what I can tell from the pictures you sent it is the pin I found. When I look up at the cam I see where the pin is or should be. If the pin is there I would think that the pin would be out flush to the surface of the cam shaft, but it is not. Unable to see all the up thru where the pin would be if missing. I think this is because the hole in the shaft and the pump shaft are not aligned?

Found my parts manual and of course it does not show the pin that is use to lock the pump shaft to the cam shaft. Not wanting to tear it down because of lack of these parts for purchase(oil pump, gasket, pin ect)

Thanks Dick L. for all the time you have taken to help me with this taking and posting pictures. I am located in central part of VA. Where might you be?

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Dick L

09-29-2007 16:29:51

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Re: Oil pump pin in reply to cranksum, 09-29-2007 08:52:57

North West corner of Ohio. Right where the three state come togather.

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Ted in NE OH

09-29-2007 06:26:34

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Re: Oil pump pin in reply to cranksum, 09-27-2007 18:03:53

Could it be a govenor weight pin, it has a grove at each end for a snap ring.

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cranksum

09-29-2007 08:55:40

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Re: Oil pump pin in reply to Ted in NE OH, 09-29-2007 06:26:34

Thanks, will look in the parts book to see!

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Dick L

09-27-2007 18:19:12

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Re: Oil pump pin in reply to cranksum, 09-27-2007 18:03:53

I suppose it could be but sure wouldn't know what path it could take to get into the pan. The pin is thru the cam shaft at the rear of the engine. If it would ware into it should still not look like that. That sounds like an old pin that was somehow not thrown away properly. When they shear off that are shorter than that and stay inside the cam. The pump its self should keep it from coming out the rear of the cam and it has a spring and a brass plunger in the front it would have to get by. I suppose that with enough run time it could work past the plunger. If I saw the pin I could tell you right away if it was the pump drive pin.
If you can't get pressure you will have to split the engine away from the torque tube and you will know for sure.

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cranksum

09-27-2007 19:34:41

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Re: Oil pump pin in reply to Dick L, 09-27-2007 18:19:12

From what I can tell from reading the part/service manual it did not say if the pin was thru the cam from the inside or out side only that the pump in located at the rear of the engine mounted on the cam.

The screen was not in the pickup tube in the pan and it appears that the hole is much larger then it is surpose to be. The screen has a plug at the end so maybe it was to much of an opening to draw the oil.

So from what you are saying oil pump and pin are all located outside the engine. Is this correct?

I used the tractor for several hours one day and went to start it a few day later and it would not start. Had no fire from the mag and reset the points and fired right up but now no oil pressure.

Thanks for getting back with me. I can send a picture of the pin I found if you'd like

Wayne

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Dick L

09-28-2007 05:03:11

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Re: Oil pump pin in reply to cranksum, 09-27-2007 19:34:41

Sure, send a picture. I will get you a picture of the pin in a cam Sat. morning.

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Dick L

09-28-2007 07:23:53

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Saturday Came Early in reply to Dick L, 09-28-2007 05:03:11

Here is a picture of the pin located in the cam shaft. This pin will have to be replaced because of the wear you can see.

third party image

You can see in this picture where the pin goes thru the cam.

third party image

This is the end of the oil pump the fits inside the cam shaft over the pin in question. This slot causes the wear on the pin.

third party image

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Cranksum

09-28-2007 08:08:04

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to Dick L, 09-28-2007 07:23:53

Think you are correct. The pin I found looks nothing like this one pictured. It looks more like the butterfly shaft from a carb with out the holes in the slotted part of the shaft. In the second picture you send it shows what appears to be a pin in the cam shaft before the first lobe. Would this pin be in the block or out?

Thinking I might need to prime the pump. When I parked the tractor when it was working ok it was parked in about a 15 degree slant which caused the oil to run away from the filter side of the engine. Maybe thats all it is??

Thanks for all your help.

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Dick L

09-28-2007 08:38:47

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to Cranksum, 09-28-2007 08:08:04

The pin is inside the block. The pump bolts to the back of the block.
It might just need primed. No way I could say for sure. How you parked the tractor should not cause the pump to loose prime in its self. The pump holding its prime is done much like holding you finger over a drinking straw. The straw will hold liquid until you lift your finger and let air in. You can (normally) remove the oil tubes from the filter and head and not loose prime.

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cranksum

09-28-2007 11:41:49

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to Dick L, 09-28-2007 08:38:47

I have the oil pan removed. Should I be able to see the pin?

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Dick L

09-28-2007 15:50:11

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to cranksum, 09-28-2007 11:41:49

You could see where it is or was with a flash light (if the cam is turned just right)
It is inbetween the block and the first lobe. I can just see the pin with my computer.

third party image

IF I had not had to run to town the last two nights I would have had this engine buttoned back up.

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cranksum

09-29-2007 06:39:33

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to Dick L, 09-28-2007 15:50:11

How do you insert picture into message? Took a picture of the pin but don't see how to add it in.

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cranksum

09-29-2007 06:57:17

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to cranksum, 09-29-2007 06:39:33

This is the pin I found in the pan.

Thanks

wayne

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cranksum

09-29-2007 06:56:22

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to cranksum, 09-29-2007 06:39:33

This is the pin I found in the pan.

Thanks

wayne

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cranksum

09-29-2007 06:58:05

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to cranksum, 09-29-2007 06:56:22

Trying it again!

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cranksum

09-29-2007 07:01:01

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to cranksum, 09-29-2007 06:58:05

Ok, got it this time!!

Link

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Dick L

09-29-2007 11:38:08

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to cranksum, 09-29-2007 07:01:01

It sure looks like it could be the oil pump pin. They are peened on the ends. Nothing in the picture to compair the size with.

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cranksum

09-29-2007 14:52:46

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to Dick L, 09-29-2007 11:38:08

Here is a better picture.

Link

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Dick L

09-29-2007 16:36:24

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to cranksum, 09-29-2007 14:52:46

That would be the pin to drive the oil pump. Rather than sheer off it had to come loose and work out down into the pan. Any I took out of a cam were really tight in the hole after the peened end was ground away.

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cranksum

09-29-2007 17:45:47

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Re: Saturday Came Early in reply to Dick L, 09-29-2007 16:36:24

Well ok then... Thats what I thougt after looking at the pictures.. Not to sure what to do with it and if it's worth is or not. Having to split the tractor and I'm guessing having to remove the head and all to get to the cam. Then the problem of finding the pin or something that will work. Not having a garage to tare it down might just end up parting it out maybe..

Thank you for all your help Dick L.

Wayne

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