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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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wd smoking

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Russell Boseck

08-21-2007 07:13:36




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OK i bought this 1951 allis wd last yr. this spring i changed the oil then right after it started to smoke bad. I just changed the oil agin and is still smoking. is there some one out there know what wrong the tractor other runs very good.




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chalmersbob

08-21-2007 19:39:26




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 07:13:36  
you said it is smoking GRAY. this is not oil. oil is blue. gray is a fuel problem. change plugs to j11 or another as was recommended. and also check wires to be sure they are copper. adjust carb as suggested, work it for a while. Bob



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Russell Boseck

08-22-2007 07:38:44




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to chalmersbob, 08-21-2007 19:39:26  
Ill try it but if it not work ill get to you very soon. Russ



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ohio

08-21-2007 16:52:18




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 07:13:36  
well, it's not healthy, but i guess she's old enough to know better.



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old

08-21-2007 09:54:47




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 07:13:36  
Well if you put in a muti weight oil and it had been running say 40W then what is happeing is that the thiner oil is getting past the rings or valve guides. Also you said you servised the air cleaner did you maybe put to much oil in it if you did that will also cause that problem because it will be sucking oil in form the air cleaner and then burning it.

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Russell Boseck

08-21-2007 10:06:05




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to old, 08-21-2007 09:54:47  
yes i thought that i put in 20 50 weight oil now and still smokes. i just clean it today but it was smoking before that. i thought that two about the bearther so i cleaned today and still smokes. what alis could be wrong. you know what pressure in the pistion to be ?



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old

08-21-2007 12:35:15




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 10:06:05  
If it where me I would swithc to a stright weight oil like 40W. That 20W-50 is a 20W oil when cold but acts like a 50W when hot, but its still a 20W oil no matter what its just the additives in it that makes it act like a 50W but it never really gets as thick as a true 50W oil does



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stu (ON)

08-21-2007 11:40:14




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 10:06:05  
Russell, I saw that you have posted your question on a different board and received some responses there as well. Does this sum up your situation? The WD has smoked out the exhaust stack since you changed oil. You are using 20W50 after having tried 10W40. It starts to smoke after a minute of running, but still runs well. You have recently serviced the air cleaner oil bowl.

If you had it running without smoke before, you should be able to get back there again. Regarding cylinder compression, the last time that I tested it on my '51 WD, it was around 100 psi on all cylinders, as I recall. Do you know what operating temperature your WD reaches? Multi-viscosity oils don't thicken until they get to a high temperature, and my WD doesn't get to 170F unless it is working quite hard, or the shutters are closed.
Did you change sparkplugs when you changed oil? Are they a hot or cold plug? Have you looked at their condition since the smoking began?
It takes a little effort if you have the original hose from the air cleaner to the carb, but have you disconnected the hose from the carb to make sure that the air cleaner has no impact? This also allows you to visually confirm that the choke plate is fully open, as well.
Is all the smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe? You mention oil on the carb; this would likely be coming from the valve cover gasket, especially if it is original, as mine was until recently. It means that you're getting good oil flow to the rocker arm assembly anyway, but lighter oil will leak easier.
Have you checked the adjustment of the main jet screw on the carb? If it's a Zenith it is at the front bottom of the carb. It should be 2-3 turns out. I have actually had the jet itself back out with the screw. This creates a lot of black smoke, but the tractor does not run well.
Have you used the tractor enough to determine whether it is actually using much oil? Does the tractor smoke under load as well as at idle?
What about cleaning & gapping your spark plugs (brand & ID number?) and changing the oil again to something like straight 30?
All of this would be easier than replacing valve guides. These old tractors can tolerate a heavier oil in the hot weather.

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Russell Boseck

08-21-2007 12:01:05




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to stu (ON), 08-21-2007 11:40:14  
no i have not checked the sparkplug. but ill will. not know hot or cold how do you tell. yes i have take the hose to the air cleaner off it is still the same. still smokes. yes all the smoke comes out the exhaust pipe. it is gray smoke that come out of it. how about the vavle seals would thay be bad and let oil leak by. Still need help. Russ



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stu (ON)

08-21-2007 13:23:45




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 12:01:05  
Tell us the brand and number of your sparkplugs and we can probably tell you if they are designated a hot or cold plug by the manufacturer.
Again, there may be nothing wrong with your tractor; just the result of putting a low viscosity detergent oil in possibly for the first time. Do you work the tractor hard enough to get it good and hot?
If you do not want to drain the oil another time, you might follow Old's thought and top up the oil with a straight 30 or 40W, whatever is easy to come by. If your oil is not going down, then you are neither leaking nor burning oil, a situation that I would envy. I don't think you would have anything to worry about. The smoke would be coming from burning off carbon deposits in the engine, and that would come to an end eventually.

Does your oil pressure gauge still work? If so, is it reading in the normal operating range?

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Russell Boseck

08-21-2007 17:23:46




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to stu (ON), 08-21-2007 13:23:45  
i have 50 weight oil now and still smokes. could it need a tune up? i checked the sparkplugs and the was one failed out could that be the promblem?? skarkplug is champion RJ12C need help soon.



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stu (ON)

08-21-2007 17:56:19




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 17:23:46  
Yes, definitely a problem with the spark plugs. The recommended Champion for the WD was the J-8, which now would be the copper top J8C. The R in the RJ12C is for resistance plug, which you definitely don't want, especially if your WD still has the original magneto. I am using J8C's when the tractor is working fairly hard on the brush hog. But, Champions are not popular with many WD owners, who prefer Autolite 295. NGK B4 is also popular with some. These are slightly hotter plugs that work well in a lot of cases. There are plugs a step colder if you were really working the tractor hard for long periods.

The heat range on the RJ12C is quite hot. If this was deliberate, the previous owner may have had a problem with plugs fouling. You should ditch those plugs and start with fresh ones, preferably the Autolites or NGK unless Champion are all that you can easily get.

If you do still have the mag on the tractor, it is important that it is in good shape and that you use solid copper plug wires (not carbon centered wires) and that the end connections be clean. This is another common cause of plugs misfiring & fouling up.

Put good plugs in and then pull each wire one at a time with the tractor running. Each pulled wire should drop the engine RPM's a similar amount. If one doesn't have the same effect as the others, trace the ignition system back to the magneto to make sure whether it is bad spark, or not.

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Russell Boseck

08-22-2007 07:50:16




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to stu (ON), 08-21-2007 17:56:19  
I have a coil and a artater to it is 12 sytem. I think i should give it all a tune up? What you think Russ



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stu (ON)

08-22-2007 08:31:11




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-22-2007 07:50:16  
Russ, click on the link for an explanation of heat range. In the text, click on "heat range" again to see the role that it plays in preventing early fouling. If you click on the thumbnail at the left you can see that Champion has borrowed NKG's picture in their explanation.

Chalmersbob has recommended Champion J11C, which is a hotter plug than J8C, but should be OK if you do not work the tractor hard; for example really making her bark when heavy brush hogging or mutifurrow plowing. I can't find J11C around here, so I use Autolite 295 or NGK B4 as hotter plugs in the winter; but JC8 works for me in the summer.

With a distributor, you should have less problem with weak spark. Check to see that the points are not burned, and that the gap is 0.020". Put new plugs in and then pull each plug wire in turn (wear gloves!) to see that each cylinder is firing evenly. If they are, just run her and check the plugs occasionally to see what they look like.

If you find that the cylinder with the fouled plug is weak with the new plug, you will have to look back to the wire & distributor for any possible problem. The next step would be to check compression and manifold gasket.

But usually it is just fouled plugs and that happens when these old tractors are not out plowing every day.

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Russell Boseck

08-22-2007 07:27:56




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to stu (ON), 08-21-2007 17:56:19  
ok i try new plugs. So what is the whole number for the plugs JC8 is the whole number or not is not could you give it to me. But will that stop the smoking? If not ill still need help with it. Russ



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John (MO)

08-21-2007 08:23:48




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 07:13:36  
You need to figure out where it is getting the oil that it is burning. It could be getting past the rings or it could be coming down from the head, through the valve guides most likely. A differential compression test would tell you which cylinder(s) is/are leaking and where. An oil change could have flushed out crud that was built up.



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Russell Boseck

08-21-2007 08:55:10




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to John (MO), 08-21-2007 08:23:48  
since it started to smoke the carb. has some oil on the outside of it. i just cleaned the air beather to. so if it is the valve guides are they hard to replace? Russ



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stu (ON)

08-21-2007 09:41:55




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 08:55:10  
Do you know what weight and grade of oil the previous owner was using? The manual calls for 20 weight above freezing all the way up to 40 weight at 90F. If the previous owner was using straight SAE 30 non-detergent and you switched to 10W30 detergent (as an example) you might expect to see some sludge removal and oil seepage past rings &/or valve guides.

Is it worth a try with heavier oil such as straight 30 if not already doing so?

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Russell Boseck

08-21-2007 09:53:38




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to stu (ON), 08-21-2007 09:41:55  
yes that sounds like what happened so what do i do to fix it? I need help bad!! the oil im using was 10 40 now im using a 20 50 weight. and still smokes. what do i do to fix it? TEll me ok. Russ



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Jack a

08-22-2007 14:14:17




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 09:53:38  
Looks as though you have had alot of good advise now you have to do your part and dig in. Sometimes it just takes a person to grab the bull by the horns and do some investigative work on your own. It will be a good learning experience. You may have to ring it in the end.



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John (MO)

08-21-2007 09:21:12




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 Re: wd smoking in reply to Russell Boseck, 08-21-2007 08:55:10  
I don`t really know what to tell you, it`s a lot harder than changing spark plugs and not near as difficult as splitting the tractor to replace transmission gears.



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