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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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D-17 verses 460U

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jk

08-02-2007 15:41:09




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i'm trying to buy a International 460 Utility from my grandpa. hes ginvine me a hard time. i just found a D-17(1958 series 1?) for sale for almost $2000 cheaper than what my grandpas wants for the 460. what should i do. both have loaders, the 17 comes with a blade, disc, plow, culivator, and tries chains, and the 460 just a 3 point adapter? i know more about the 460, and alosmt nothing about a D-17, where should i go? PLEASE HELP!!

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jk

08-04-2007 13:34:04




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:41:09  
to be honest, the guys over in the IH board opted for the D-17 also!! thats kind of a shock to me, but they pretty much said the same stuff, a 17 is more reliable, etc. the 460 does come with a backhoe, that leaks like a siv, and is more for like an 806, or mabee 190 allis(?). the 460 has alot of sentimental value, and i've been running since i can rember, still a tuff destion. i don't really need 50+ horses, i could be with a D-14 or 15 really. i know the power director give the D's live PTO and hydralics, is it also a HI+LOW too? some one please explain it to me. thanks JK

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Smith1000

08-04-2007 10:00:54




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:41:09  
I have operated both a D17 and a 460 Diesel. The 460d seems to have plenty of power. It seems I read somewhere that there was a design problem with the 460 in that there was too much power for the drive train and people had problems with them. I don"t remember the exact details. On the other hand, my neighbor has a 460d that he bought new and has never had drive train problems with it. It is hard to start though and always has been he says. He always says he wished he had bought a gas one.

I have a D17 which I really like. Haven"t had it very long, but I am getting to where I really like it. It is very easy to operate.

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ohio

08-04-2007 10:43:13




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to Smith1000, 08-04-2007 10:00:54  
ih worked with dealers to correct weak transmissions, most were repaired/improved in the field. seems to me that the 460 trans/finals were based on an h's(don't quote me on this!)



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ohio

08-04-2007 10:48:44




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to ohio, 08-04-2007 10:43:13  
look for a triangle stamped next to serial #, this is supposed to indicate upgrade.



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ohio

08-04-2007 09:45:25




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:41:09  
both were good tractors, both worth about the same $. but remember- D-17 has 28" tires,(cheaper to replace) and a four cylinder sleeved engine.(cheaper to ovehaul & maintain) also, the power director on the allis is better (my opinion!) than the t/a on the 460 (if so equiped!) the oiling system on the D-17 (gas, right?) is top notch, and power is easy to come by, (if you need more than 60hp.) although it is with the 460 also. the 460 will turn alot more rpm. for $2k, and all that equipment, you know the answer!

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ACEd

08-04-2007 07:51:55




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:41:09  
If you feel the d17 is in equal condition, the answer is obvious. You say you know more about the 460 - do you mean you are more familiar with operating it or you know how it was treated because it was in your family? If the latter, I infer you may have questions about the 17 - still hard to figure $2000 difference even discounting the implements - but even if you allowed for a major rebuild, I think you are $1000 or more ahead with the 17. And I seem to remember a problem with either 560 or 460 - I think there was even a recall in the 1960"s to fix something that broke - in transmission? If the 460 you are looking at is one of those and did not get the retrofit, that would probably be an expensive item. And besides, we here are all AC nuts - what answers did you get on the IH board?

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william myers

08-03-2007 15:57:54




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:41:09  
never ownwd a 460 ih, but do own a d-17, tough tractor.. When mine was made in 60 i was just 6 years old, but it had to be 1 tough machine when it came out of the factory...



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Jack a

08-03-2007 06:26:36




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:41:09  
D17 is more reliable. Wet clutch that can be abused, PD shift-on-the-go is nearly indestructable. Good on fuel too. The 17 can out lug the 460 also. Hydraulics are a little weak when not using AC high pressure cylinders and two way would have to be added if not already. I wouldn't get a 460 or 560 for that matter. Hydraulics tend to get water in the oil and then freeze up in winter. This can be a real pain to cure. Not going to mention the TA. The row crop 560 and 460 are more clumbsy and loud and the 460U doesn't have the clearance for other work like a D17 has. Get a series IV. Series IV are tough to beat.

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SRC

08-03-2007 06:12:43




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:41:09  
The money seems to be the dominant factor here, but tractor for tractor you can't beat the 460. We've got 2 of them, 1 gas and 1 diesel, and they are both great tractors. Parts are easy to get and not terribly expensive as tractors go. And once you have a fast hitch, you'll never want anything else. Along with the independant pto, power steering, and the hydraulic remotes they offer, it all adds up to a great tractor.

I have no personal experience with Allis Chalmers. I think they are a pretty good tractor, but I've heard that parts are very expensive for them.

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Traditional Farmer

08-03-2007 04:00:17




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:41:09  
If you're paying $2000 less for the D17 I'd say the 460 is grossly over priced as about $2000 to $2500 would be all its worth which is all the D17 by itself is worth also but with the equipment
the d17 is by far the better deal if both tractors are in comparable condition.



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John (MO)

08-03-2007 06:12:04




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to Traditional Farmer, 08-03-2007 04:00:17  
I think you are exactly correct. Either Grandpa is grossly mistaken as to the value of his 460... or... well let`s just assume he is grossly mistaken.



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jk

08-02-2007 15:44:03




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:41:09  
forgot to mention all the implemts with the D-17 are snap coupler.



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old

08-02-2007 19:27:42




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:44:03  
Well the D-17 has more HP but not much maybe 2 or 3 more. The 460s 3 point isn't all that good and its easy to switch a snap coupler to a normal 3 point. Plus with all the other stuff the D-17 sounds more like you should jump on it and then in the future work on the 460 and see if you can get him to work with you

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JOHN HARMON

08-02-2007 16:47:57




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 Re: D-17 verses 460U in reply to jk, 08-02-2007 15:44:03  
I would jump on the AC D17 and forget about the IHC 460 U. I have owned and operated AC tractors and have operated the IHC 460 U at my Employers ,IHC Advertising Dept,Hickory Hills Farm Norway ILL. The AC D 17 Gas has a 226 CI 4 Cyl. [ only 4 Spark Plugs to replace] and the AC D17 Diesel has a 262 CI 6 Cyl. Engine. The 460 U Gas has a 221 CI,6 Cyl. [ 6 Spark Plugs to replace] and the 460 Diesel has a 236 CI, 6 Cyl. Engine. Weighted equally the D 17 will Smoke the 460 U. The AC D17 is a tough little Tractor. I say "Little" as it pales in comparison with some of the giants being used today,any way I would go with the D17 for sure if it is in good condition. You are dealing with 1960's era Tractors here and time can be cruel on any thing including Humans, I'm a perfect example LOL. Besides you are getting a Ton of good equipment with the AC.

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