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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust

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Smith1000

06-20-2007 16:51:08




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I just got this D17 running good last weekend. I had worked over the carb and replaced the electrical, plugs, etc. The tractor had been sitting for many years. It was running great Sunday, Monday and Tuesday.

Mowed with it last night and, about dark, it began running rough--kind of running rich (black smoke) and kind of missing (it seemed). I pulled the plugs, cleaned them (they are new). The were kind of black and sooty. The plugs had worked loose some. They were not tight when I removed them.

I pulled the carb and checked the float. It is fine. I had soldered it Sunday. It is not leaking. All seems okay with the carb I guess.

It will run rough and kind of miss. I checked the spark to each cylinder and each plug is getting power. I have not examined each plug when running though (guess I should do so). I checked the compression and it still seems very good.

If I let it sit and restart it, it will kick a flame out the exhaust. When I shut it off, sometimes it will backfire very loud.

Does anyone have any ideas of what might be going on with this old D17?

I will go out and check the plugs for spark. First, I will run it and check for a cool plug. Maybe a plug is bad. Thanks for any help.

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Smith1000

06-22-2007 05:24:14




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 It's Running Good Again........Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backf in reply to Smith1000, 06-20-2007 16:51:08  
Got it running good last night. I replaced the plugs with NGK and then checked the timing. It appeared to be off, so I rotated the distributor some. I am not sure exactly what the problem was for sure because when I put the plug wires back on, I switched 2. I know the plug wires wasn't the original problem (last Monday eve) because it had been running good in the field and just started to miss and run poorly.

I think it was the timing and/or possibly foulded or bad plugs. Also, I had adjusted the points. I ran it with the miss and then felt the plugs. The 2 rear were just warm, not hot. The front 2 were too hot to touch. I switched the rear 2 plug wires and it smoothed right out.

Had checked for an intake manifold leak and that was fine. I believe the carb is still working great. The gas level seems fine.

So, I mowed more with it. It is running better than ever. Seems to be fairly economical on gas--better than my Super MTA at least at the moment. I need to tune up the M some because it hasn't been done for years.

Thanks for all of the help from each and every one! I really enjoy operating this D17. It is really easy to mow with. The wide front and power steering are really great and it has plenty of power.

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Skinpine

06-21-2007 17:25:37




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-20-2007 16:51:08  
Recheck point gap. Check for cracked or tracked distributor cap on the inside with a good light. Make sure you have the wires going to the right plugs.

I have good luck with Champion Plugs.



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TexasAllis

06-21-2007 05:20:41




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-20-2007 16:51:08  
I bet the timing is just off. It does not take much for it to run bad. Get the timing mark to show in the hole in the bell housing. I took a model brush and some white paint and painted the mark so it would show up better with my timing light. You can time it by ear but a few degrees makes a big difference in power. It did on mine.



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old

06-20-2007 20:59:53




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-20-2007 16:51:08  
Wel you said you solder the float. I'll bet you put to much on it and now its to heavy. BTDT and found in the long run its better to spend the $$ and buy a new float then it is to try to fix one. I did the same thing once and thats the last time I'll do that. Doesn't take much to make a float to heavy with solder since its high in lead and lead is very heavy

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Smith1000

06-21-2007 04:17:24




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to old, 06-20-2007 20:59:53  
That's a possibility because I did get quite a bit of solder on it and it had been soldered before. It was running great though for a long time on Sunday and it ran great Monday evening. Also, it doesn't seem to be leaking gas out the carb. I pulled the carb apart and double checked it yesterday. It seemed to be floating okay still. I would like to replace the float though. I think I'll need to order one on-line somewhere.

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old

06-21-2007 07:42:16




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-21-2007 04:17:24  
This site should have them and or value bitl also any AGCO dealer will have them or be able to get them. I had the same sort of problems with my D-17 and after I rebuilt the carb and replaced the float if purrs like a kitten now. I tried to solder its float up also and found it just didn't work well after I did so

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j cleveland

06-20-2007 19:47:54




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-20-2007 16:51:08  
Check to see if you have any intake leaks between the manifold & head.



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Smith1000

06-21-2007 04:19:55




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to j cleveland, 06-20-2007 19:47:54  
I will look for intake leaks. I kind of looked the manifold over, but not real closely. That's a good possibility. Thanks.



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Jerry Coulter

06-20-2007 19:41:02




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-20-2007 16:51:08  
Sounds to me like the condensor or points have shorted or you used Champion plugs.



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smith1000

06-21-2007 04:24:47




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Jerry Coulter, 06-20-2007 19:41:02  
I do have Champion plugs in it because that is what the book calls for--I believe J8's or something like that. What kind of plug do you recommend? The book also mentions Autolites (I think).

It has a new condensor and points. There seems to be a spark there, but I'll check for a short. I think there is good clearance from the wires in the distributor, but I'll look again. I have seen spark with the tester I use at the plugs. I'll take another look at it. Thanks.

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Smith1000

06-20-2007 19:36:21




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-20-2007 16:51:08  
The old guy (91) who lives/farms to the east of me just told me the same thing. "Sounds like the timing is off."

I'll rotate it around tomorrow and see what I have. I think I can kind of get the #1 piston up with the timing mark in place and check its reference to the distributor.



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Smith1000

06-20-2007 17:39:48




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-20-2007 16:51:08  
I can't seem to get it started at the moment. It seems to be kind of flooding....there is very little gas left in it at the moment though. It sparked out the manifold where the pipe meets the exhuast manifold. Still wants to backfire when trying to start it. Kind of sounds like valves possibly?



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El Toro

06-20-2007 18:06:45




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-20-2007 17:39:48  
Have you checked the timing? It may have jumped the timing. I would bring No1 piston to TDC on the compression stroke. Remove No1 sparkplug near the radiator and hold your thumb over the plug hole until you feel compression against your thumb. Once you feel that pressure against your thumb you can drop a large handle screwdriver into the plug hole. The handle needs to big enough so it doesn't fall into cylinder.

Once you have the screwdriver on top of the piston
slowly hand crank the engine and watch closely as the screwdriver rises and then stops. Your timing marks should be aligned too. Remove the distributor cap and see where the rotor is pointing. It should be at your No1 plug wire.
Both valves on No1 piston should be closed too.
Hal

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Smith1000

06-21-2007 04:30:01




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to El Toro, 06-20-2007 18:06:45  
I was looking at the book last night. I suspect it would most likely jump timing at the distributor, where the gear on the end lines up? Looks like the only other possibility for a timing mis-match would be where the camshaft gear meets the crankshaft gear. I would think that it would be unusual to jump timing there unless teeth were missing.

I have had the gears on distrubutors wear out before (on cars). Is this the most likely possibility if it is a timing problem? Thanks.

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El Toro

06-21-2007 06:20:20




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 Re: D-17 Running Rough, Backfiring, Flames Out Exhaust in reply to Smith1000, 06-21-2007 04:30:01  
You can tell if the timing has jumped by bringing No1 piston to TDC on the compression stroke as I described earlier. Your distributor
may have sheared the woodruff key or one on the camgear. That happens on the red tractors too.
The rotor should be at the No1 plug wire. Hal



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