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D17 Carb?

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Smith1000

06-12-2007 18:01:19




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I installed new points and condenser in this D17 that hasn't been started for years. Also, I went ahead and put on a new coil. It is now getting a spark on all cylinders. I can get it to run briefly off of starting fluid, but for some reason, the carb isn't sucking gas into the engine.

I cleaned the sediment bowl, gas line, etc. I have had the carb off and sprayed it out well, passageways, etc. Gas is flowing into the bowl well. The float comes up and shuts off the gas okay. I adjusted the float slightly to increase the depth of gas in the bowl. So, it has plenty of gas in the bowl, but nothing goes into the engine. I can full choke it and nothing. Not a drip of gas out the carb throat or otherwise the odor of gas. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I might try next?

I pulled a couple plugs. No oder of gas. They are basically dry. Thanks for any help.

The fuel mixture screw was screwed all of the way down (I noticed) when I took the carb off and took it apart. So, it probably had some issue before.

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Sid

06-12-2007 20:53:09




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Smith1000, 06-12-2007 18:01:19  
When you had the carb off, did you check the intake for mud daubers nest or any other obstruction? Also check air breather for obstruction if you have not already done so.



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Sid

06-12-2007 20:52:22




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Smith1000, 06-12-2007 18:01:19  
When you had the carb off, did you check the intake for mud daubers nest or any other obstruction? Also check air breather for obstruction if you have not already done so.



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Smith1000

06-13-2007 03:17:17




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Sid, 06-12-2007 20:52:22  
I have the hose off the carb intake at this point, so I haven't really checked out the air intake other than to take the inlet off to get the hood panel off.

The carb was clear of mud dauber nests. The backside of the instrument panel had a mud dauber nestsand there was quite a bit of debris in there, including some broken walnut shells.



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old

06-12-2007 18:43:49




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Smith1000, 06-12-2007 18:01:19  
A lot of times one that hasn't been started in a long time has stuck rings. And if that is the case it will not suck gas into the cylinders like it should. Pour about a 1/2 cup of tranny fluid in each cylinder and let it sit 24 hours. Then pull the plugs back out, never leave the plugs out so dirt etc will not get into the cylinders, turn the engine over with the plugs out to clear the cylinder and then try to start it.

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Smith1000

06-12-2007 19:30:49




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to old, 06-12-2007 18:43:49  
Excellent advice. I had the plugs out this evening. I'll pull them again tomorrow and add transmission fluid and let it sit. It is very likely that it has stuck rings by the way the engine sounds when turning over. It's probably not getting the suction it needs to pull the gas. Thanks.



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old

06-12-2007 21:03:27




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Smith1000, 06-12-2007 19:30:49  
If it spins over and seems to have little or no compression then its almost a sure bet it has stuck rings. I have a D-17 here that when I started working on it had the same problems plus a mouse had built a nest in the exhaust manifold so the engine had a lot of junk in it. It took a few times filling the cylinders with tranny fluid to blow out all the mouse nest that had got down into the engine. At first it would run on one cylinder then 2 then 3 then afater a few hours of messing with it all 4 now it runs good and has a good bit of power to boot

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smith1000

06-13-2007 03:23:58




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to old, 06-12-2007 21:03:27  
Little compression is a good description. It has some, just not what would be expected. Exhaust was moving out of the pipe fairly well during the brief periods I had it running on starting fluid. There was some debris in the air, grass, feathers or something, so must have been something in the exhaust-maybe a nest. Fortunately, there is a cap on the exhaust.

I may step out there this morning, before work, and get some transmission fluid in the cylinders. May as well get a head start. Sure would like to get it running. Thanks.

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smith1000

06-13-2007 04:22:11




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to smith1000, 06-13-2007 03:23:58  
I got it running for a while this morning (on gas) by holding my hand over the air intake on the carb. It would suck some and pull gas into the engine. Had the choke part way on. I could keep it going by releasing my hand and putting it back on. This went on for quite some time, but it would not run on its own. Had to turn on the exhaust fan and clear out of the barn for a while. It sounds okay when running, fairly smooth. I think it will run okay once the carb/gas issue is worked out.

It has some comression, enough to pull on your hand pretty good at the carb. I went ahead and pulled the plugs, put transmission fluid in the cylinders and replaced the plugs. I'll let that sit for now.

Still not sure about the carb. Maybe it does have a problem. I may pull it off again later today and look it over again and clean it a bit more.

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old

06-13-2007 07:48:14




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to smith1000, 06-13-2007 04:22:11  
Did you put a kit in the carb? If you didn't you need to since tring to use the old gasket doesn't work well. Plus you need to soak a carb in a good carb cleaner for 24 hours or so. I use beemans carb cleaner. It comes in a gal. can and has a basket in it so its easy to pull the parts back out

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Smith1000

06-13-2007 18:11:54




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to old, 06-13-2007 07:48:14  
I haven't made any progress on this. I think there is enough compression to pull fuel into the engine, but the problem lies with the carb. For the short period of time I keep it running, it is kicking out a tremendous amount of heavy smoke. It really pours out. Part of this is likely due to the transmission fluid. The exhaust is very wet. It doesn't seem to run right when it is running.

Had the carb off again and cleaned the surfaces well between the throttle body and the bowl. If I put my hand over the intake, it will start, but have to keep moving my hand on and off the intake. If I take my hand off, it dies.

I think I may need to get a rebuilt carb or rebuild this one. Doesn't seem like a rebuild would change much though. It looks fairly clean. I will do a compression check and see what I have. I am wondering about the condition of the head. Maybe valves are sticking or soemthing.

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old

06-13-2007 19:16:17




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Smith1000, 06-13-2007 18:11:54  
A carb can look clean but not be. Theres a number of very small passage ways in it that if clogged will stop one from running well if at all. Smoke from tranny fluid only last a few minutes then clears up fast. Also you should be getting an oily exhuast for very long either.



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Smith1000

06-14-2007 04:29:36




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to old, 06-13-2007 19:16:17  
Thanks. I think I need to roll it out of the barn when starting it again. It really smokes. Looks like the barn is on fire. I will check the head out a little closer and the compression before working ont the carb too much further.

I can spray carb cleaner through all of the little passageways at this point. I'm sure I'll get it running eventually. It is just going to take some time.

When running it for brief intervals, it seems like I am getting hit with sand or grit pieces on occasion. I may take the exhaust manifold off to look closer and make sure it is clear.

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old

06-14-2007 08:19:41




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Smith1000, 06-14-2007 04:29:36  
Sounds like your getting hit by rust from the exhaust or maybe the engine has rust in it and if it does then you may need to open it up and see how the cylinders look. If your getting that much smoke you may need to do an engine rebuild. You may also have broken rings or a burnt valve or 2



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Smith1000

06-12-2007 18:19:02




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Smith1000, 06-12-2007 18:01:19  
I just checked the number on the carb that I am having problems with. It is an early D17 carb, no. TSX773. I noticed they sell a "Zenith" carb for $250 that is supposed to outperform the original carbs. I would kind of like to get the tractor running with the old carb to see how things work on it. I really don't know what kind of shape it is in.



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Texas Denny

06-12-2007 19:22:18




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Smith1000, 06-12-2007 18:19:02  
I think Old's advice is right on. If the rings are stuck or the cylinders are worn out, the fluid in the cylinders will improve the suction into the cylinders. This is temporary but should get it running. If the rings are stuck, the fluid should loosen them (along with running the engine).

I wouldn't put a lot of stock into one carb being better than another. If you want more horsepower, either increase displacement (more bore or more stroke) or increase compression ration (new pistons). If the carb is bad (hopelessly plugged channels or missing parts), a new carb will certainly help. Other than that, you'll likely not see a difference.

That said, I should qualify that there would be little difference on a stock engine. If you increase displacement to max and increase compression to max, the carb may become a limiting component.

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Smith1000

06-13-2007 03:13:30




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 Re: D17 Carb? in reply to Texas Denny, 06-12-2007 19:22:18  
Thanks. If I can get it running fairly well, I probably won't be too concerned about the carb. It is good to know there is a good alternative carb out there.

The arms lifted when turning it over, so the hydraulics must be working.



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