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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum

WD oil filter

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taswell troy

06-06-2007 19:54:20

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I recently purchased a WD and after bringing it home I changed the oil and oil filter. I used a Fram C159 filter. It doesn't seem to want to build up oil pressure. I put the old filter back on and it the pressure goes right up. Do I need to let it run awhile before it builds pressure? I was afraid to let it run too long, don't want to tear something up. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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baldwin

06-13-2007 07:42:32

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to taswell troy, 06-06-2007 19:54:20

fram wix napa filters they may all be made by the same company but they are NOT the same filter. there are different specs for filters and just because one company maks several different brands does not mean they are the same.

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taswell troy

06-07-2007 13:39:30

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to taswell troy, 06-06-2007 19:54:20

The tube is still in the base, but I haven't looked at the end of it to see if it is restricted. What should it look like? The new filter that I bought did not have a wooden dowel rod through it, should it have had one? Thanks for all the info.

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Rod (NH)

06-07-2007 15:27:20

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to taswell troy, 06-07-2007 13:39:30

Here's what that tube looks like on my '42B. I would guess a WD would be the same, but I'm not sure. The proper filters used to have a wooden dowel as a temporary shipping/storage item to keep the path up through the packed media clear so the filter could be easily slid down over that tube. The last two filters I bought did not have a dowel. Apparantly that feature has now been dropped.

Rod

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steve(ill)

06-07-2007 06:46:40

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to taswell troy, 06-06-2007 19:54:20

if the old filter works, and the new one dont, then you got it narrowed down. problem is the FRAM is the good filter. WIX was the wrong design filter and caused low pressures. I would check the tube as the guys said, but possibly the old filter is 100% plugged and you actually do have low pressure on the motor. The new FRAM should be correct and flow the correct amount of oil. Might need to shim up the pressure. You might try filling the FRAM and soaking the cotton and then reinstall.

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NAPAGUY

06-07-2007 07:42:54

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to steve(ill), 06-07-2007 06:46:40

C159 FRAM AND WIX 57011 ARE BOTH MADE BY BALDWIN FILTER CO.

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Rod (NH)

06-07-2007 09:08:13

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to NAPAGUY, 06-07-2007 07:42:54

That's very interesting. When I purchased a Fram C159 not long ago, it came in a Fram box and had the C159 imprinted on the filter itself. However, there was no indication at all on the actual filter that it was a Fram product. I thought that to be unusual. I certainly expected to see a Fram logo on the filter, but there wasn't any. Then I noticed that the C159 had an uncanny similarity to the new NAPA 7011 (WIX57011, I thought). And neither the "Fram" C159 nor the NAPA 7011 had the old familiar wooden dowel that used to keep the pathway up thru the compressed media open until installation. Therefore, your information confirms what I had suspected: Both the NAPA 7011 and the Fram C159 were made by the same manufacturer. The NAPA filters used to be made by WIX, but perhaps not now. I guess brand names on oil filters, especially those for vintage AC tractors, don't mean much anymore. You can see my functional comparison (essentially identical) of the NAPA 7011 with the "Fram" C159 here, Scroll down towards the bottom for the updates that cover those. Baldwin, eh? I wouldn't have guessed it. I figured it must have been WIX. Do you know if NAPA dumped WIX after the fiasco with the old design NAPA 1101 and moved to Baldwin? I thought the NAPA filters used to be made by WIX.

Rod

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napaguy

06-07-2007 13:48:08

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to Rod (NH), 06-07-2007 09:08:13

rod, had a diffugalty at work sometime back. napa filters are still made by wix. that being said,wix (as all other manufacturers) sometimes buys certain low run items from another company. guy told me fram made a better filter so i bought one. they look identical...down to the 11 digit batch number on the top. i called wix and found that they buy this # from baldwin..i called baldwin to see if they also made the fram. i was told this was confidential info and could not be confirmed by the guy i was talking to...then he asked if in a side by side comparison if they looked the same( which they did).he then said i could "assume" that the said filters probably came off of the same line..so ends the great debate!!napaguy

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Rod (NH)

06-07-2007 15:30:26

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to napaguy, 06-07-2007 13:48:08

Thanks. So much for brand loyalty. You sometimes don't where stuff is coming from or who makes it nowadays. And if you do find out, you get surprised.

Rod

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napaguy

06-07-2007 19:03:36

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to Rod (NH), 06-07-2007 15:30:26

rod, i really don't know why after all of those years with the dowel in the filter they changed the design.for many many years i sold wix and ac filters. if i remember right the old ac # was p465 or something like that.wix was 51011 i think. when wix changed to 57011 that was the new design. i assumed that the filter media inside was different and did not require the dowel to keep the passage open.it is just an assumption on my part, but i think the new # was because of buying them from another manufacturer. wix is a good filter but then so is baldwin. in the past wix has made filters for many different companies including john deere and caterpillar. we used to get wix air filters in with the wix label on one side and a part number starting with "a r" on thhe other side. that was the jd number. the guy at baldwin told me they(filter companies) were in competition with each other but also helped one another out. i imagine if each company had to set up for a small run of each filter we would be paying much much more for them. in that reguard the manufacture of a certain filter being made by a reputable company (such as baldwin) and then being labeled for another company is a good thing.napaguy

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Bob

06-07-2007 11:09:25

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Rod in reply to Rod (NH), 06-07-2007 09:08:13

Have you ever thought of "peening" the hole at the end of the riser tube shut slightly more?

This would raise oil pressure independant of the filter media, yet allow oil to flow through the filter.

MOST, if not ALL other types of bypass filters have an oriface buily into the filter cannister, or a fitting, to restrict the flow independant of the filter media.

I am referring to the typical "cannister" oil filters on automobiles and tractors from the 40's and 50's.

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Rod (NH)

06-07-2007 15:50:43

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Re: Rod in reply to Bob, 06-07-2007 11:09:25

Bob,

No I haven't, at least not yet. For the simple reason that I don't think I have an oil pressure problem that needs attention. I'm satisfied with at least 10 psig at idle with warm ambient temp, which I get, provided I use a proper packed filter. The standard relief setting is at 15 psig. You must have seen my other web page on the riser tube. I do suspect that top opening may be a little larger than normal due to the corrosion. I don't know what the original opening size was. Mine's at 1/8" dia now. Perhaps when new it was closer to 3/32". Do you know the original opening sizes, both for the top hole and the cross thru holes? I probably will have to make a replacement for that tube one day and would like to use the proper diameters.

I agree that one could compensate for a lower than normal design filter resistance by making the hole in that tube smaller. You'd have to be careful that you didn't over do it though or you'd reduce the flow and get less than the designed filtering. According to AC, the design is for 1/6 of the total oil flow from the pump to be filtered.

Rod

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Bob

06-08-2007 12:52:34

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Re: Rod in reply to Rod (NH), 06-07-2007 15:50:43

I have NO idea what the original size was, but I've seen some that looked like they'ed been damaged or "mucked with".

I wonder if some folks thought they'd get MORE oil pressure by making the hole bigger?

Your 1/8" seems AWEFULL big to me, and MUCH bigger than the restrictors in "cannister" oil filter housings.

The Wisconsins also used the same filter. I wonder what size hole they used? I have a VG4D in storage... I'll check it out one of these days, and report back, FWIW.

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David Maddux

06-07-2007 05:28:23

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to taswell troy, 06-06-2007 19:54:20

You do know that there was a bad run on filters for a while? Look inside and what you want to see is a perforated metal cover with some kind of cotton packed tight inside of that. If you look inside the filter and see any room for air, then it is a bad design.

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Bob

06-06-2007 20:42:15

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Re: WD oil filter in reply to taswell troy, 06-06-2007 19:54:20

Besides POSSIBLE issues with certain filters, is the "riser tube" remaining in the filter base, or is it stuck in the old filter?

The tip of the "riser tube" is spun shut to make an oriface to restrict the flow though the "bypass filter". If the riser tube is damaged, and doesn't have the restricted tip, it will flow WAY more oil than it's supposed to through the filter. If the tube is missing altogether, the oil will simply massively flow out of the hole in the filter base, to the return side, and back into the crankcase, causing low oil pressure.

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