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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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Suddenly no oil pressure in my B

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Totally Stumped

05-20-2007 10:34:22




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Drove the tractor last week and it was showing normal oil pressure. Started it this morning and after 30 seconds or so I thought the engine was a bit noisy and I checked the gauge which showed no oil pressure. Shut things down, quickly checked another gauge and the same result. So, all of a sudden I have no pressure. Never saw that happen before. Oil level is up so I guess there's a blockage somewhere inside or the oil pump hatched. Where does a guy start to troubleshoot this problem? I really don't know where to begin.

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Herb Brady

06-03-2007 19:14:27




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 Re: Suddenly no oil pressure in my B in reply to Totally Stumped, 05-20-2007 10:34:22  
I had a B that when ever it sat for a long time it would loose its prime and I would have to take the line loose and squart some oil in it to prime it. As long as it was used quite often it wouldnt lose its prime.



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Tom Hanson

05-22-2007 13:31:15




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 Electrical issue in reply to Totally Stumped, 05-20-2007 10:34:22  
When converted to 12V did they add a balast resistor? This just reduces voltage to the points system to reducing sparking and adds longetivity.



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DARDAN

05-22-2007 06:18:37




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 Re: Suddenly no oil pressure in my B in reply to Totally Stumped, 05-20-2007 10:34:22  
Another thought this morning. Pull the filter and the oil pres gauge. Try to blow air thru the filter bracket, from the gauge hole to the stem that goes up thru the filter. It should pass air and oil. If not, that would explain the dry filter. A little carb cleaner from boh directions alternated with air might unclog it if that appears to be the problem. Does the oil appear very dirty? Is there dry sludge where the oil filter screws on? That may give a guide to how dirty the engine is inside. It also would be good to make sure the line up to the head is not plugged. IF consistant low oil pres is a problem, the suggestion about the corks in the ends of the rocker arm shaft is right on the mark. It is a cheap, first place to check.

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DARDAN

05-21-2007 23:45:32




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 Re: Suddenly no oil pressure in my B in reply to Totally Stumped, 05-20-2007 10:34:22  
I heard from several people over the years, of 125 engines; B, C, CA, & power units having oil preassure one day and not the next!!!! It seems that under the right circumstances, the darn oil pump just looses it's prime, because it is up on the end of the camshaft and out of the oil. Never heard an explanation of what it took to make that happen. Maybe it's a clue the engine is getting a bit loose. They just primed them in that line that comes up out of the torque tube/clutch housing, and everything seemed to be ok. I my self have been around these tractors for 40+years and NEVER saw it happen. The relief valve (such as it is) is in the neck of the oil pump where the pump fits into the back of the camshaft. I think it realy acts as a check valve to keep the pump from loosing it's prime, as the ball seats against the body of the pump, and the spring is retained by a pin in the neck of the pump. I have seen this spring fail, as it is of small gauge wire and low tension. All the oil that passes the ball is the oil that lubes the system and builds preassure. The tightness of the engine and the restriction of the oil filter is what really makes the oil preassure. On a healthy engine the oil will flow FREELY with the oil filter removed, and there will be some temporary preassre drop with a new filter.

That said: If the area under the filter is dry, then further investigation is manditory!!! It is cheaper to do an overhaul, if neccessary, BEFORE you waste the crank! Been there, done that. OUCH.

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Totally Stumped - works f

05-21-2007 17:43:37




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 Re: Suddenly no oil pressure in my B in reply to Totally Stumped, 05-20-2007 10:34:22  
I took off those oil lines to the filter and primed the pump through the top fitting. Started up and the oil pressure has returned and the tractor runs and sounds gauge every time I start it up now.

WHAT WOULD CAUSE THE PUMP TO LOSE IT'S PRIME?

Meanwhile, I took off the filter during this whole process (it's been on since before I bought it) and it doesn't appear as if any oil is coming up that little tube into the middle of the filter. The filter element is dry like it just came out of the package. Any reason for that happening? Meanwhile, thanks to all of you for your help earlier.

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Weslyn Tx.

05-20-2007 19:30:02




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 Re: Suddenly no oil pressure in my B in reply to Totally Stumped, 05-20-2007 10:34:22  
check the corks in the ends of the rocker rail. Mine had deteriorated and failed.



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El Toro

05-20-2007 14:46:50




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 Re: Suddenly no oil pressure in my B in reply to Totally Stumped, 05-20-2007 10:34:22  
I would pull the pan and take a look at the pump,
the woodruff key on the drive gear may have sheared. Check for sludge over the the pickup screen. The IH Cub has a problem losing the oil
pressure, but there's a procedure for priming it by filling the filter housing with oil and removing a pipe plug and squirting oil in there.
The pump on it is installed at the rear of the engine and doesn't hang vertically in the oil pan.
The tractor has to be split to get to the pump.
An engineering mistake. Hal

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Dick L

05-20-2007 15:07:22




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 Re: Suddenly no oil pressure in my B in reply to El Toro, 05-20-2007 14:46:50  
You have the wrong engine. There is no woodruff key driving the oil pump on a B. The cam is cross drilled at the rear and a hard pin is pressed in. The pump slotted shaft straddles this pin. I have replaced several with a roll pin. The hole has to be drilled out a little for the roll pin. I use a carbide drill. This was because I could not find a new hard pin that size. You can not prime the oil pump thru the filter housing as the oil from the filter dumps into the lifter housing and drains into the pan. You prime the pump thru the oil line at the top of the pump.

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Dick L

05-20-2007 12:21:51




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 I Hate To Say This But in reply to Totally Stumped, 05-20-2007 10:34:22  
When that happens, a lot of the time you find the Oil pump drive pin that goes thu the cam sheered off. Take the oil line off that goes to the filter and try to prime the pump. After trying that put oil in with the engine running and if it does not bubble or take a prime you will have to pull the engine to fix it.



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Don L C

05-21-2007 14:16:50




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 Re: I Hate To Say This But in reply to Dick L , 05-20-2007 12:21:51  
Talk to the boys at NAPA..... they should have a reistor to cut the voltage to the starter.....



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Totally Stumped

05-21-2007 06:15:30




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 Re: I Hate To Say This But in reply to Dick L , 05-20-2007 12:21:51  
I'm fearing the worst has happened and perhaps the pin has sheared. I bought this tractor last summer and some previous owner had installed a 12V system with an alternator. The 12V's certainly does hammer the starter drive when engaging and I imagine that impact also transfers to the pump/cam pin location and possibly contributed to the shearing off (if that's what has happened). I was planning on converting back to a 6V with generator but that's not a concern right now obviously.

As far as priming the pump, I assume you mean feeding oil into it from the vertical tube that comes up out of the clutch cover? That must lead to the pump, is that correct? How much oil is needed to prime the pump? Is it done with the engine running or not?

I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what you are referring to in your last sentence. Could you clarify that for me?

The one response about the pressure relief valve being stuck open is interesting. Where exactly is this on the model B? Maybe in the oil filter housing?

One last question, it's probably a long shot but I should check out the oil pickup screen first. I assume that there is one coming down into the oil pan sump. Is that correct?

I appreciate the help you and others have provided so far.

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ldj

05-20-2007 11:59:32




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 Re: Suddenly no oil pressure in my B in reply to Totally Stumped, 05-20-2007 10:34:22  
Most engines have a pressure relief valve in the system.I would see if this engine does and check to see if carbon or something has got in the seat and holding it open. If this happens there will be no pressure because it will all escape there.



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