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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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Battery/Electrical/Starter problem

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YouWantMyUserName

03-05-2007 18:40:57




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Well I just had my engine rebuilt on my WD...

see>Link

Well>Link I've still got some issues to work through. My original starter had been fine except for the switch. During the rebuild testing the starter didn't have enough power to turn it over according to the mechanic so he was using one of his until he gave it back to me. He also said my battery was shot and got me a new one. My father in law had a good working starter on a parts tractor of his he let me use so I hooked it up and all was well. (Other than it floods when starting after sitting. Think I have a bad float?) but anyway I was starting it and letting it run for 20 min or so each day to excercise it before spring and get all the kinks out. Never had an issue until I ran it out of gas. After that the starter wouldn't turn like it was locked up. I pulled it and it ran fine by itself. I reinstalled and everything was fine. I let it sit for three days, went back to start it and it was dead real dead. I jumped with antoher battery and with my car (running) and I could only get about a half a crank out of it. I went and got my mechanics starter and it worked fine. I started trying to test the electrical for a draw and this is what I found. Battery terminal to battery is 11-12v with engine running 13-14v. If I pull the negative cable off and go terminal to ground wire I get nothing with the ignition off and some current with it on. However if I let it set for a minute I get about a .5-2vspike for a brief moment with neg to neg and ignition off. I also get 30v AC current between terminals when the tractor is running.

Everything I've read tells me I have a bad diode on the alternator but wouldn't I see a draw with everything off if this was the case?

Before I go have my starter rebuilt is there any chance something in the electrical is burning them up?

This is a 12 volt system of course. Ifit is the diode can anyone tell me what I need to replace it with? (It's a three wire alternator two on top with battery cable on bottom.)

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ACEd(La)

03-11-2007 15:34:53




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 Re: Battery/Electrical/Starter problem in reply to YouWantMyUserName, 03-05-2007 18:40:57  
I've got almost identical problem, except I have not tried another starter - Tractor was bought that way - so no need for sniping - As I understand it 1 starter works good, but other doesn't - have you tried "bad" starter on another tractor? I would think by process of elimination it has to be the new starter or connections you made to it. I'm going to change battery and cables and if that doesn't work, I'll try a starter swap, - let me know your findings. best. Ed

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YouWantMyUserName

03-11-2007 16:54:54




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 Re: Battery/Electrical/Starter problem in reply to ACEd(La), 03-11-2007 15:34:53  
Yea the starter problem seems to be resolved. It was as simple as not getting enough juice to it. Somehow the jumper cables weren't getting enough contact to provide the amperage. Once the real battery was all charged up it worked fine (though the other start does turn over faster). My only remaining problems are the carb flooding when sitting (I'm working on the float and needle today) and the battery going dead which I think now is the diode in the alt. My mechanic told me that if it was the inline diode from the top two wires to the ignition that was bad the tractor wouldn't shut off by killing the ing. switch. I just hooked everything back up today but the battery already seems to be draining. after just half a day with it all connected the battery charged (according to the amp meter) for quite a while and when I was popping off the battery wire it wouldn't. Though I'm not sure why I can't seem to find any drain with a multimeter. I'm going to make sure it's dead dead in a day or two and look at the diode in the alt. I don't see what else it could be since nothing has changed in the wireing.

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Steve in NJ

03-08-2007 04:02:06




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 Re: Battery/Electrical/Starter problem in reply to YouWantMyUserName, 03-05-2007 18:40:57  
One of the biggest culprits for starter to battery cranking problems are cables and connections. Make sure all connections to the frame rail or engine block are clean, dry, and free of paint. Paint is an excellent insulator. Make sure the cables you are using aren't 40+ years old and of the wrong gauge size to do the job. The 6V starter will handle the 12V conversion, just don't crank on the starter for long periods of time. This will heat up the starter quite quickly and shorten it's service life. We have lot's of customer's still using the 6V starter motors on a 12V conversion with great sucess because the engines are in tune...
Steve@B&B

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YouWantMyUserName

03-08-2007 07:00:38




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 Re: Battery/Electrical/Starter problem in reply to Steve in NJ, 03-08-2007 04:02:06  
Thanks for the constructive reply Steve. :)

I did get the starter thing figured out kind of.

I guess even with jumpers directly on the battery cables (No battery connected) on the tractor and well seated to the terminals on a running car (Yes it is a negative ground) I just wasn't getting enough juice. Once I fully recharged the battery and put my replacement starter that had been working back in it cranked over just fine.

I've still got the leakage problem to figure out but after reading and learning more about this stuff I'm confused to an extent. When I look at the diagrams of how to convert to a 12 volt system the wiring doesn't look like mine. The diagrams have one of the two wires on top of the alt. going to the battery terminal on the alt and the other going to the ignition/coil. Mine has both the top two wires put together into the diode. Also the way the diode is wired it look as if it allows flow towards the alt no away from it? The stripe is on the alt side. When I test with an ohm meter it goes the other way but my mm is very cheap and I've read that cheap ones can have the direction of the flow reversed for ohm testing. I'm half thinking I should just put it back together the way it was (I've clipped out the diode) instead of trying to replace it and see if the problem repeats itself.
Sorry for being so stupid and lazy oh wait inexperienced. :)


Thanks!

http://www.antiquetractorstore.com/articles/artint195.htm

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alliswd

03-06-2007 18:44:14




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 Re: Battery/Electrical/Starter problem in reply to YouWantMyUserName, 03-05-2007 18:40:57  
your whole trouble with tractor not starting is due to the fact that you are too lazy or not smart enough to properly maintane the orginal 6 volt system, running 12 volts into a 6 volt starter is the lazy mans way of fixing a simple problem.



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YouWantMyUserName

03-06-2007 21:32:41




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 Re: Battery/Electrical/Starter problem in reply to alliswd, 03-06-2007 18:44:14  
wow. thanks dick. Learn how to spell maintain smarty.



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BCnT

03-05-2007 20:42:26




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 Re: Battery/Electrical/Starter problem in reply to YouWantMyUserName, 03-05-2007 18:40:57  
it has a diode trio...any REAL parts house should have em in stock...i doubt seriously charging system causing starters to go out...batteries usually go first...double check your wiring before you repair/replace alternator



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