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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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Help! Proper colors for 1944 C

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Big Red 1

01-03-2007 10:14:34




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Hi folks,helping friend restore 1944 C.
Can you tell the the proper:
Grill Color
Front wheel color
Rear wheel color
Rear rim color
and color for all lug bolts
thanks in advance




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cadet trooper

01-05-2007 17:19:49




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 Re: Help! Proper colors for 1944 C in reply to Big Red 1, 01-03-2007 10:14:34  
Steve, I gotta tell ya that was probably the most comprehensive explanation I've ever seen. That should take care of any loose ends reguarding paint issues for those tractors, someone should print this or at least copy your call name for advice because I've seen similar questions on this before. Nice work and I can tell you've done your homework. Take Care, CT



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chalmersbob

01-04-2007 18:15:49




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 Re: Help! Proper colors for 1944 C in reply to Big Red 1, 01-03-2007 10:14:34  
early c's had orange rims. later, after the war, they used galvanized which is why every one paints them silver. the tint used at lowes is universal tint and will not hold up. the next best paint to automotive paint can be bought at a paint store who has industrial tints. this is a more perminate color. still use hardner. Bob



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steve(ill)

01-04-2007 18:04:11




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 Re: Help! Proper colors for 1944 C in reply to Big Red 1, 01-03-2007 10:14:34  
up to 1959 the color was PO#1 or pumpkin orange (Pursian Orange). The D series in the early 60s were PO#2 which is more red, not pumpkin. Corporate orange is later in 1970s and another "red" shade.----- When the B- C tractors were made the tractor was fully assembled then sprayed. EVERTHING was orange except the tires. Allis used some galvanized rims, and some were painted orange during the 40s-50s. Still a lot of questions and discussion about "why". Most guys prefer to paint the radiator, starter and generator black, but in the old days they were orange as were the spark plug wires and the mag.

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Steve Jelf, So KS

01-04-2007 17:43:38




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 Re: Help! Proper colors for 1944 C in reply to Big Red 1, 01-03-2007 10:14:34  
Here are some previous posts on Persian #1:

Is this a show tractor or a work tractor. If its for show go with a automotive system from bare metal. PPG Omni in 600080 is the correct color. If it a working tractor and saving money but wanting a decent paint job is important, you can go with a industrial rust inhibitive gloss enamel like the Valspar sold at TSC. The AC orange standard color won't be the perfect shade of orange for a 49 C and you may be OK with that. If you want a industrial gloss enamel that matches PPG 600080 you will have to have it custom tinted. Most Lowe's have the Valspar product and the ability to tint it correctly for you. The product is Valspar, ANTI RUST, Oil Based Enamel, Gloss Clear Base. Product #21929. It comes in Quarts or Gallons. The custom Quart tinting Formula is 109-16 111-1Y42 116-36. For a Gallon ask them to shoot this formula 4 times in a gallon. You got to keep it simple for some of the dummies working in the Lowe's paint department. I would recommend adding the appropriate amount of enamel hardener following directions. Lowe's dont sell the enamel hardener but TSC does. Can be brushed or sprayed. I like brushing the cast iron and spraying the sheetmetal. Surface prep is not critical but degreasing and scuffing old painted surfaces and spot priming rust with a suitable rust preventive primer is a good painting practice.

Persian Orange #1 -- used from 1929 to 1960
PPG DAR60080
Martin Senour 99L-3723
TISCO TP280

DuPont's Dulux alkyd enamel went the way of the DODO bird years ago. It has no replacement in the current DuPont lineup. The closest color to the early persian orange I have seen from DuPont is their generic Spectramaster "yellow", code YS074. I understand it is available in all their current chemistries, including ChromaOne. Lacking that, if you are going for an acrylic urethane that crosses directly to that shade of persian orange you might want to investigate PPG's Concept (DCC) single stage urethane in formula number 60080. The Concept would be a PPG direct competitor to DuPont's ChromaOne.

A little up date on a previous post. I had Lowe's paint department scan the same sample of PPG 60080. The formula changed ever so slightly from 109-16 111-1Y42 116-37 to 116-36.5. I could not see any obvious difference in the color. I jotted down the Lowe's Item number for the Quart of 21929 Valspar Gloss Clear Base, it is Item#83062. The Gallon of 21929 Gloss Clear Base is Item#49437. These item numbers may help someone who is having trouble finding the correct Valspar Anti Rust Gloss Enamel tinting base at their local Lowe's. The formulas above are for a Quart. Add the correct amount of Valspar enamel hardner from TSC and get it Orange. Good Luck in your area. It works at Lowe's in East Texas.

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Jason(ma)

01-04-2007 09:36:22




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 Re: Help! Proper colors for 1944 C in reply to Big Red 1, 01-03-2007 10:14:34  
have you taken a look at Guy Fay's book? I used it a lot when I was doing my G. I'm in the process of moving right now so I can't find it or I'd look for you.



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JMS/MN

01-04-2007 10:47:13




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 Re: Help! Proper colors for 1944 C in reply to Jason(ma), 01-04-2007 09:36:22  
I'd sooner depend on factory photos and sales lit for proper colors than SOME of today's books. Not criticizing Fay's books, but others I've seen show some pretty sloppy restores, paint, decals, etc.



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cadet trooper

01-03-2007 17:27:54




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 Re: Help! Proper colors for 1944 C in reply to Big Red 1, 01-03-2007 10:14:34  
Sorry fellas, just having a friendly disagreement here but I was in the AC business over 20 years ago so I'm not going toe to toe here but I do know we were selling the Persian Orange for Gleaner combine wheels which is a deeper darker orange and the tractors were a Corporate orange at least for the later series tractors I don't know about the B's and C's. I know the Corporate orange is a lighter shade of orange. Help me out here its been a long time ago so I could be wrong. All my old AC corporate buddies have long since past and Gleaner doesn't have orange wheels anymore. Just curious. CT

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Rod (NH)

01-03-2007 11:53:34




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 Re: Help! Proper colors for 1944 C in reply to Big Red 1, 01-03-2007 10:14:34  
Hi,

Early Persian Orange for all. In an automotive paint, the closest match that I've seen is 60080 in PPG (which I use for my '42B) and YS074 in DuPont. Note that considerable disagreement exists on the color of the rear rims from the factory. There are "shades of correctness" in silver, persian orange, galvanized and even black. Most probably there was no single color standard for the rear rims from the factory throughout the long history of the Bs and to a lesser extent, the Cs. I happen to believe that persian orange was the predominant color for the rear rims in the forties. Others will disagree. However, I think there is evidence that enough of them were persian orange that you shouldn't be called incorrect if you painted them that way. In the end, however, paint them whatever your friend happens to personally prefer. It's his tractor. Or have them professionally galvanized. Personally, I much prefer the appearance of persian orange rears to the silver or galvanized ones so that's how I painted mine.

Rod

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russ1

01-03-2007 10:48:45




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 Re: Help! Proper colors for 1944 C in reply to Big Red 1, 01-03-2007 10:14:34  
Everything is orange except the rear wheel rims and they would be silver/aluminum. Be sure to use Persian orange, the first edition. All others are too red.

Russ



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