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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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hydraulic Fluid

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ng

09-15-2006 18:22:14




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I have a 170 ac gas.
Has anyone out there ever have trouble with brands of hydraulic fluid. I changed mine and now the arms will not go down but you can push them down by standing on then. But they will come up on there own when you start the tractor.
And I can"t not get the haybine clyinder to go down to the cutting position. If it"s a stuck valve how to you get it unstuck.




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Gatz

09-17-2006 10:48:27




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 Re: hydraulic Fluid in reply to ng, 09-15-2006 18:22:14  
Valve and mntg plate getting hot indicates that the pressure is maxed out and going over the relief valve. Still sounds like something is stuck inside, something is hanging up, or some debris has lodged inside.

Does the pump make noise? Is it hot too ? Lines hot ?

Is the sump OK ? Might be that something came loose and got pushed on into the valve assemblies.

Has the sump/screen been serviced? Don't forget the magnet inside.

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ng

09-17-2006 15:56:06




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 Re: hydraulic Fluid in reply to Gatz, 09-17-2006 10:48:27  
Below the pump the line makes noise and are just warm
Is the sump in the sump cover.
So where is the screen? Do I have to take the bolts off the cover like a trans on a vehicle and the screen is there?
Is this replacable or just cleaned and reinstalled
The valves make noise.



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Gatz

09-17-2006 19:47:17




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 Re: hydraulic Fluid in reply to ng, 09-17-2006 15:56:06  
(hope this post gets in the right place)

I'm making the bold assumption here that the 170 is the same as the D17SerIV .....

What's puzzling is that it worked before the fluid change, right?

Again, from what you've described, it sounds like a valve is not going to center position or the TB valve is hanging up. Especially when you say that the valve a'y gets hot and that the valves make noise. If you have an owner's manual, it should describe how to set the Depth and Traction Booster controls for "normal" 3pt and remote cylinder usage.
These are on the quadrant next to the seat.

Did you check the linkage bellcranks underneath the valves?
Some people have had trouble with the linkage bellcrank shafts being rusted enough to cause problems.
They have to be free to rotate. Check this while tractor is shut off.

Lastly, if you need to service the screen and magnet.....
The sump is under the torque tube where the intake tube for the pump is. Get a coupla CLEAN 5 gal buckets. Remove the drain plug to empty the reservoir. The screen and magnet are inside it.
The screen is sandwiched between the torque tube and the sump cover. This may prove difficult to remove so leave a coupla bolts backed out about a 1/4" while tapping or prying it loose. You'll need a set of gaskets or can make your own from 1/32 gasket material. Also, I think there's an o'ring on the short tube that should be replaced.
Make sure screen has not seperated from sheetmetal frame. Permatex #2 will work better than silicone for sealing when re-assembling.
Hope this helps.

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ng

09-17-2006 23:33:32




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 Re: hydraulic Fluid in reply to Gatz, 09-17-2006 19:47:17  
you lost me now.
I have a operators instructions and a I&T shop service manual. No owners manual.
I have know idea where it would say to set the depth and traction booster control for normal.
And no idea what a bellcrank shaft is.
I found in the book where the drain plugs are,and it points to a sump cover so I'm think this is where the screen and magnet are! the other drain plug points to the p.t.o. housing.
The first thing that happen was I was blade some dirt I backed up into a large rock and broke a hydraulic line on the cylinder to the lift arms.
I had one made and put it on. I also broke the /\
bracket to the top link off.
Then the fluid look bad so I decide to replace it.
Now this has been since last year, I've been using it as is and play with the levers to get it to go up and just stand on the arm to hookup equipment because they wouldn't go down on there own. Now I bought a haybine and the hydraulic cylinder will not go down to the cutting position.
I can play with the levers and rock it up and down a couple of inches that it.
I have used a sickle mower with a hydraulic cylinder on it and cut twice this year with no problems lowering and raise it. Alittle slow going up and down but it worked.

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Gatz

09-19-2006 07:40:27




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 Re: hydraulic Fluid in reply to ng, 09-17-2006 23:33:32  
ng,

here's 2 pics of what I was referring to as "bellcranks". They're the brackets that pivot on a stud for the link from the 3pt lift arm to the valve a'y.

1st one is from the right rear of tractor.

third party image

the 2nd pic was taken from the right side of tractor looking to the left and towards the rear. (seat removed)

third party image

3rd pic shows the link rods to the valves. Hard to see, but in the far corner is the stem for the Traction Booster valve. This is the one that can hang up because it is spring return.

third party image

Make sure all these linkages are free to move.

If you have more questions, feel free to email

BTW, here's a site that explains "bellcrank"

Gatz

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Skyhighballoon(MO)

09-15-2006 20:44:06




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 Re: hydraulic Fluid in reply to ng, 09-15-2006 18:22:14  
ng - here's the valve that Gatz is talking about. Both of us have had this same problem with our Series IV D17's which have idential hydrualics to your One-Seventy.

View of the TB valve from seat level. It's the one without the linkage rod to the left:

third party image

Here's the view from underneath:

third party image

I'm not sure if this is factory or not but mine had a bolt through the linkage that was too tight and was holding the finger in on the TB valve and I'd have to pry it back. I loosed the nut so the linkage was free and then put a double nut on so it wouldn't come loose as shown in this picture:

third party image

Let us know if this fixes it. Good luck! Mike

PS - Gatz: Yes I put a c-clip on that other linkage while I was fixing things.

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ng

09-20-2006 15:38:32




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 Re: hydraulic Fluid in reply to Skyhighballoon(MO), 09-15-2006 20:44:06  
on the tb, that lever where you added the nut.
Is this lever suppose to rock up and back.



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Gatz

09-15-2006 18:56:06




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 Re: hydraulic Fluid in reply to ng, 09-15-2006 18:22:14  
Might check to make sure your TB valve is not stuck or sticking.
It's a spring return valve and may not be returning. Try using a penetrant like Kroil on the front of it. Kinda hard to get at, but it's under the large plate that holds the valve stack.
I think the rear cover can also be removed and then you can push the valve plunger forward.

Is the fluid compatible with AC 821 ?



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ng

09-16-2006 23:20:49




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 Re: hydraulic Fluid in reply to Gatz, 09-15-2006 18:56:06  
Still the same.
The valve seems to be moving freely and everything else is moving freely.
The fluid is a unversal Fluid compadable to AC. I just keep play trying to move the handles up and back. Where the hose connects and on the plate above valves it gets really hot.
In the manual it shows two place to adjust the needle valve one is 3/4 turn and the other is 4 complete turns. Still no luck with this either.

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