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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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calcium in rear wheels

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Bob H Ore

02-15-2006 16:01:37




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Is it possible or feasable to replace the calcium in rear tires of TO20 with windshield washer fluid?? the tractor is only used for light duty now and I'm worried about it rusting thru as she sits quite a bit. Thanks




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Dave Grubb

02-16-2006 12:36:18




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Bob H Ore, 02-15-2006 16:01:37  
You may want to consider this product also.



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Texas Denny

02-16-2006 17:44:04




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Dave Grubb, 02-16-2006 12:36:18  
With a weight of 10.7#/gallon, it is 25% heavier than water. It isn't nearly as dense as a CACL solution but would be a lot better than any other alternative that has been discussed.



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Rod (NH)

02-16-2006 20:28:52




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Texas Denny, 02-16-2006 17:44:04  
Hi,

"...isn't nearly as dense as CaCl..."? At 10.7 lb/gal, it seems to me to be excellent ballast. I've been using CaCl in both my AC-B (rear only) and my Oliver 77 (front and rear) for many years (>30) without a problem. So I've nothing against CaCl. It's relatively cheap and does the job well. I use tubes and pay attention to the valve cores - and always use caps. I've found that replacing the valve cores every few years is great preventive maintenance if you are using CaCl. I use a 15% solution as recommended by my AC-B manual. That equates to about 9.5 lb/gal - which is significantly less than the 10.7 claimed for the RimGuard. If you are getting significantly more than 10.7 lb/gal with CaCl, what concentration are you using?

third party image Rod

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Texas Denny

02-16-2006 20:55:22




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Rod (NH), 02-16-2006 20:28:52  
My source told me the specific gravity of the densest useable solution was about 1.4 (31%). I checked my Chemistry Handbook and found the actual weight to be 11.2#/gal which is slightly more than Rim Guard. I'd have to say they are essentially equivalent and the benefits are good. I wonder how the cost compares.

According to the handbook, the freezing point of a 15% solution is +13.5 degrees F. To get a freezing point between below -30 degrees F, the concentration must be 27 to 31%. If you live in the midwest, 15% would seem to be a bit weak.

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Rod (NH)

02-17-2006 05:51:14




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Texas Denny, 02-16-2006 20:55:22  
I live in NH where we regularly get winter temperatures below 0°F and it's not that uncommon to get down to 20 below. I have never had a problem with the 15% mixture per the AC manual. In fact the manual states that the "freezing point" of that mixture is actually +10°F. It is also stated that at +10°F, a slush will begin to form but the solution will not freeze solid at 20 below. The fact that there is a slush in the tires below +10 does not cause a problem. I believe this is characteristic of brine solutions where intially water comes out of solution as ice crystals, thereby making the remaining solution more concentrated, with a lowered "freeze point". You are correct that increasing the concentration above 15% will add to the density. If you increase it to 45% the density becomes 12.25 lb/gal. However, the "freezing point" is now +78°F! According to this chart from DOW Chemical, the best "slush protection" is at about 60 below with just under a 30% solution weighing in at 10.75 lb/gal. Not significantly better than the RimGuard. You can get more density with the CaCl but wind up paying for it with a rapidly increasing "freezing point" where you can have solid chunks of CaCl rolling around in the tires in quite warm temperatures. It might even become a solid mass of CaCl with some water on top of it - not a good thing in any event. I think the actual numbers will vary a little depending on the purity of the CaCl used. I understand that there is a 90% flake available but I get the feeling the 77% is more common and probably less expensive.

I haven't purchased any CaCl in many years. I remember buying the 77% flake but cannot remember the cost. I am sure that it wasn't very expensive. I don't know, but strongly suspect, that the RimGuard, being a specialty product, will be significantly more expensive to load up large tractor rears. It appears to me that it would be an excellent substitute for CaCl if one is willing to pay whatever cost difference there is. I wonder how the cost compares also. I'd like to see a current product cost comparison of the two.

Rod

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Texas Denny

02-17-2006 07:44:02




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Rod (NH), 02-17-2006 05:51:14  
Your right. The freezing curve on the brine has an inflection. The best protection is around 30%. Higher concentrations freeze at higher temperatures. I think the situation on antifreeze is similar. If the mixture is too weak, it does freeze but it is soft ice - kind of porous and no strength - doesn't really hurt anything but it won't circulate in a cooling system.



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Texas Denny

02-16-2006 07:09:57




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Bob H Ore, 02-15-2006 16:01:37  
If there are no leaks, there is no risk. If you ever detect a leak, that is the time to do something. I've seen tires and wheels with CaCl with 30 years and no evidence of a problem. I've got a 36 Oliver with the stuff for that length of time and the wheels are perfect! But it had NO leaks.



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Bob H Ore

02-15-2006 19:22:29




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Bob H Ore, 02-15-2006 16:01:37  
Thanks for the tips guys, I think it will be easier on everything.



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Jim Rose (NC)

02-15-2006 19:12:08




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Bob H Ore, 02-15-2006 16:01:37  
I use antifreeze in the front and rear tires of my D15. I put 5 gallons in each rear and top off with water. 1 gallon in each front tires and top off with water. We don"t get as cold here in eastern NC as you do in Oregon so you may want to increase the porportion some. Additionally you may want to use the environmentally friendly stuff if you have farm pets, just to be on the safe side in the event that you have a leak. Been doing this for years and no problems. Just another option. Jim

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jeffalex2

02-15-2006 18:30:33




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Bob H Ore, 02-15-2006 16:01:37  
Yep...I got new 11.2x24 rear tires on my B, new tubes, and put WSW Fluid in my tires...You loose about 25lbs per wheel vs. calcium. Get good washer fluid and dont dilute it. The cheap stuff gets slushy at 25 degrees



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old

02-15-2006 17:00:43




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 Re: calcium in rear wheels in reply to Bob H Ore, 02-15-2006 16:01:37  
Yep last time I had a flat rear tire that is just what I did, I drained the CACL and then fixed the tube and then filled with wind sheild wiper fluid. If you need an easy way to fill them drop me an e-mail and I'll send you a page from a 1935 owner manual that shows how to do it in a very east way



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