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Starter Problemo

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kwahl1

01-29-2006 09:54:57




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WD model and I think a WC/WF transmisssion. Cranked alot a few weeks ago and not much luck. A few bangs, a little smoke. Now all I can get is a "click" from the starter solenoid and hot wires, a little smoke from the hot wires. Fully charged 12 V battery. I took the starter down to Napa and he got it to engage but he had "no load" on th ebench test. Starter good? That bring me to the solenoid. Here is what it looks like, round two large terminals, one for the battery, starter and acces. elect, mounts on the side of the starter lug, and then two small terminals, one ground to starter casing, ones to the starter button. Only identification on the solenoid is Made in USA and S on one terminal and I on the other terminal. What do I ask for at the auto parts store? and if the starter is shot, what one will work? Starter ID is MAW 4010 then 6-001-1988. Am I on the right track? Still chained to the trailer and raring to get runnin'!!!

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chalmersbob

01-30-2006 20:31:14




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to kwahl1, 01-29-2006 09:54:57  
definetly sound like a wc, hand brakes, throttle on right of post. should have a starter switch mounted on the starter with a foot operated rod to engage switch.
also the pops your are getting, check the plug wires, could be on wrong. assuming it has a mag, #1 wire is top closest to the block and to the plug closest to the radiator. order is 1243.
good luck with you wc. have fun working and playing with it.
BOB

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Texas Denny

01-29-2006 14:16:32




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to kwahl1, 01-29-2006 09:54:57  
From all that you say, it sounds like you have a WC that has had after-market foot brake pedals added. I've not seen many of these. Regarding your starter problems, John T. says it right. Clean, Clean, Clean before you start to troubleshoot. Cables are a big problem on old tractors.

The solenoid can be replaced with any solenoid. Get your connections solid before buying any parts.



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John T

01-29-2006 10:46:08




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to kwahl1, 01-29-2006 09:54:57  
So many questions, so little time lol.

Just cuz a starter runs well unloaded on the bench dont necessarily mean its good under a load.

Often, when an electric solenoid switch chatters is cuz the battery is weak and/or theres a bad connection somewhere. The VERY FIRST THING I would do is remove, clean n wire brush, n reattach each n every battery and starter and ground and solenoid and cable connection, give the battery a good charge (or use a known good substitute battery) then see what happens??? Make sure the ground is on a good solid non rusted main frame type bolts versus some rusty tin location.

To see if the solenoids the problem, its "somewhat" possible to jump by pass around it direct from its battery side over to its starter connection side using a big jumper cable BUTTTTT TTTT CAUTION thats a high current potential arcing connection so you have to be carfeful not to short to frame ground and make a dead tight soild conenction which scratching around will not accomplish. If she cranks well by passed but NOT using the solenoid, the solenoids bad assumign its lil S activation terminal is receiving good voltage. I usually check that by jumping hot 12 volts from the battery side of the solenoid to its lil S activation terminal, cuz if it works that way but not via the start switch, I know its a switch or switch circuit problem instead of the solenoid. NOTE thers still has to be alllll l good battery n cable n ground connections for the by pass jump test to make her spin well.

I have used the older standard 12 volt Ford solenoids on lots of generic 12 volt starter applications, it has the battery n starter big posts then the lil S activation terminal and the I terminal which can be used as a ballast by pass system on tractors so equipped. The work by their mount being frame grounded and then if you apply 12 votls to its lil S terminal via the start switch it closes the big contactor to make up the Bat and stater conenctions, its NOT rocket science.

Generally speaking, if when you try n start her the lights would dim badly and the battery voltage drop drastically, its more likely a starter problem, however, if the lights dont dim much or the battery voltage drop but she still dont crank well (but all else above is good), Im more suspicious of a bad solenid or starter switch.

PS I dont know beans about what starter is correct for that tractor and that type stuff, listen to Texas Denny and the other good AC men regarding that..... .....

John T

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kwahl

02-06-2006 18:27:59




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to John T, 01-29-2006 10:46:08  
It's getting perplexing, JohnT. Thanks for the bypass idea. I seem to think that there may be a short in the starter. Lets see if I can describe this problem. On one side of the solenoid, large lug with positive battery cable, generator wire and starter button wire. Large lug on the opposite side of solenoid has a "copper strap" to the large copper lug on the starter. "S" terminal on the solenoid is the other starter button wire and the "I" terminal has a green wire to ground of the the starter casing. With the starter off the tractor, with the ohm meter, I'm showing a short between ground and the large copper lug on the outside of the starter. I did notice that when I've got it all installed and try bypass the solenoid like you mentioned early, shorting out, large sparks. Did someone mention wiring nightmare? Well recently all I can get is a "click" from the solenoid. Thought the clean terminals was the answer. I bought new cables and a battery, 900 CA. When the "clicking" continues for about 30 seconds of trying to start her, the battery dies and needs to be slowly charged again. a 2 hour delay. Any help?

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kwahl1

01-29-2006 17:21:15




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to John T, 01-29-2006 10:46:08  
Thanks John. Cleaning is what it takes and things gotta be tight. Got the battery recharged and she was kicking over pretty strong. Still heating up the cables, glowing and arcing on the loose ones. Tighten them suckers up. Still didn't start, but a couple of bangs. Well I move to carberator now. Kit on order. Lots of fuel coming out the intake (air hose) when I took it off.
So you think it's a refurbished WC? With those fixed up brakes? Forgot to mention, the throttle is on the right side of the colum. Has 2 buttons below the steering wheel, one the starter and one kill button.
Oh well back to recharging that dying battery. Thanks all for the input

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Texas Denny

01-29-2006 10:12:52




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to kwahl1, 01-29-2006 09:54:57  
Just curious. Why do you think that you have a WD? Does it have spin out wheels and foot brakes? Where is the throttle control?

Thanks,



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kwahl1

01-29-2006 10:36:11




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to Texas Denny, 01-29-2006 10:12:52  
Thought it was a WD based on the serial Number location on the pumpkin (illegible). From the pictures I saw thought it to be a WD. Dad said he thought it was a 1950. But saw that diagram in the manual and the shifter is just like WC/WF. There are 2 foot brakes that also release the 2 hand brakes that are held into position (ON) with some cam looking device.



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kwahl1

01-29-2006 10:36:06




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to Texas Denny, 01-29-2006 10:12:52  
Thought it was a WD based on the serial Number location on the pumpkin (illegible). From the pictures I saw thought it to be a WD. Dad said he thought it was a 1950. But saw that diagram in the manual and the shifter is just like WC/WF. There are 2 foot brakes that also release the 2 hand brakes that are held into position (ON) with some cam looking device.



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AaronSEIA

01-29-2006 12:00:47




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to kwahl1, 01-29-2006 10:36:06  
If the SN is on the punkin and it looks like a WD, then it's a styled WC, if it's a wide frotn, it could be a WF. Also, the hand brakes make it a WC or WF. I have seen some aftermarket foot brake setups. What you have is a styled WC.
Aaron SEIA



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old

01-29-2006 11:10:26




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to kwahl1, 01-29-2006 10:36:06  
As Texas said a WC or WD shouldn't have a soliniod but it should have a push button type starter switch mounted to the starter with a rod going back to pull for starting it. Sounds like you have a night mare of a wireing problem since it was how some one hooked it up instead of what is right for what you have. Also a WD rear end will not interchange with a WC rear end with out also includeing the tranny. The 2 are made differant and just will not swap out unless some one has done a lot of extra stuff to just plain make it work.

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Texas Denny

01-29-2006 10:10:42




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to kwahl1, 01-29-2006 09:54:57  
Go to Ebay and buy a starter for a WD or a WC. You may be able to get one from NAPA but it will cost plenty. May be able to get one from a tractor graveyard.

Neither the WC or WD had a solenoid. So your setup is not standard. Hard to trouble shoot it when I can't see the setup.

You will be able to burn up a WC or WD starter if you have a 12 volt battery if you crank it long and hard. When cranking, do it for 5 or 10 seconds max and then let the starter cool down. In cases like this, I prefer to pull the tractor to get it going - lot easier on everything.

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kwahl1

01-29-2006 11:08:22




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 Re: Starter Problemo in reply to Texas Denny, 01-29-2006 10:10:42  
Not sure how to attach photos, but if you do a seach for Dick L, he has a photo posted on 1-23-06, of the starter, orange paint on the sides, and solenoid too.

Email me at [email protected] for more photos of the WD or WC or WF



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