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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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'51 AC-B 3-point conversion

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cgn526

12-08-2005 16:21:58




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I'm thinking of getting a '51 B model from someone I know. It has a pto, and belly mower. I'd really like to do a 3-point conversion. I'll have to find a hydraulic pump. Any advice out there? Is one system better than another? What hydraulic pump will work on a B model? Do you have to have a drawbar for the conversions to work? Help!




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cgn526

12-11-2005 19:24:19




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 Re: '51 AC-B 3-point conversion in reply to cgn526, 12-08-2005 16:21:58  
I mentioned that there were two hoses coming from the pump. One of them goes up forward and disappears into the torque tube. Does that go to the transmission?



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T.J.-A.C.

12-10-2005 16:27:42




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 Re: '51 AC-B 3-point conversion in reply to cgn526, 12-08-2005 16:21:58  
We have a worksaver setup on on of our C"s and are happy with it, I have a quick connect on the line for switching between the 3 point and the cultivator lift, once my B is back together the cultivators will stay on permanently on the C and the 3 point will go onto the B for using our old 3 point corn planter. It has pretty good lifting power but the front end does get a little light, I don"t use it as much now since I got another tractor with a factory 3 point and live pto and hydraulics but it did a good job for a few years, just remember that the hydraulics will not have power without the pto in, and that can get a little scary with some attachments. T.J. The work saver and the cross set ups both require a drawbar to mount to the tractor.

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cgn526

12-10-2005 16:26:55




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 Re: '51 AC-B 3-point conversion in reply to cgn526, 12-08-2005 16:21:58  
I picked up the tractor today. I runs decent. It has what I believe to be a hydraulic pump on the right side of the pto housing. there are a couple of hydraulic lines coming off of it and one goes to an old lift piston on the rear. the serial # is 30408. I think that makes it a "38. It has hand brakes, but electric start?!? Must be a "put together". I"m excited about getting to work on her. How hard is it to rebuild the pump?Parts available?

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steve(ill)

12-11-2005 06:53:24




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 Re: '51 AC-B 3-point conversion in reply to cgn526, 12-10-2005 16:26:55  
that is the pump on the right rear corner. the valve and pump area a combination. it is not difficult to rebuild if you are familiar with "meduim difficulty" mechanical jobs. i would get the book prior to teardown. there are a coule pieces that can be damaged if you dont follow directions. you can also have someone rebuild it for you. there should be a 1/4 inch hose that comes out the back and goes to the cylinder. drain the transmission/ hydraulics and add hy-trans or a similar light weight oil. engage the pto lever and lift up on the hydraulic lever with the motor running. oil should spirt out the 1/4 inch hose into a bucket. it is low volumn, dont worry about pumping it too fast. squirt out a cup, then let go of the lever, wait a couple minutes, do it again. it should clean out and may be o.k.

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cbp

12-09-2005 14:56:48




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 Re: '51 AC-B 3-point conversion in reply to cgn526, 12-08-2005 16:21:58  
If you do want to use an old high pressure pump, they aren't too difficult to find by pulling the whole tail assembly PTO and all from a scrap yard machine. The problem is then getting a ram suitable. I got around this by grabbing a single CA ram and using it slightly offset from center where it wouldn't conflict with top link and any driveshaft you might want to use on an implement.

I welded two 1/2x3 steel stock in to nearly an angle iron shape (I used a greater than 45 degree angle on the bars), then put two ears on each side to hold aftermarket N-series ford lift arms. This assembly bolts to the rear of the inner finals. Then ears to hold the CA Ram bottom offset near the right lift arm ears. That took care of the bottom end. For the top I used the mounting from where the standard loops came off the rear guard mounts. I made those out of heavy tube with brass bushing stock and put a zirc on each side. The one inch bar stock then went across that and it also had bars running out so I could change where the top mount for standard implement jacks could mount. This let me have 3 different mount points for a range in lift height. This part is very touchy because you bind up the jacks on some settings depend on how open or closed you run the implement jacks. If I recall, I had to experiment a bit till I had it right. Then I had to weld an arm on the cross bar that held the top part of the CA Ram, this would spin the rod and lift the jacks which would lift the lower arm. The top link bracket runs below this assembly but still bolts to the guard mounts. I ran into problems first go round with the top link bar because it would tend to bend in the middle (BTW, I didn't mention that I had to weld ears to actually hold the top link).

I did one on a C and also braces from the lower bar up to the top link bar which really strengthened everything. I didn't do that on the B because it didn't ever seem to be stressed that much. Most implements exerting that much downward pressure are probably too heavy for the B or C in the first place.

A picture would replace a million words in the above but I don't have digital that works, hopefully one of the others will post a picture of theirs. Anyway, it worked very well and didn't cost even a 75 bucks to put together. It did take time but it was fun. You may find the hitch you build will make you want to change other things on the machine. For example, my back blade hooks up and works great, but the machine needs more weight to really take advantage of it under some conditions. My bush hog is just flat to heavy for the tractor and the PTO needs the D-14 to knock down what I usually have growing though it will mount right up to the B and technically will work. If you get a 3-point plow, smaller is better on the B. Just need common sense on the weight and power needs of what you try to use on a Cat 1 hitch on the B.

If you look in the Articles to the left, there is an article called new hitches for old tractors that has some stuff and I noticed there is a 3 point specs in that column too. In the case of the B, you can ignore the HP rating they show on the Cat 0 issue because the B should use a Cat 1 spec. Most Cat 0 PTO implements won't be appropriate for a 540 PTO whereas all the Cat 1 are.

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cgn526

12-09-2005 10:22:16




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 Re: '51 AC-B 3-point conversion in reply to cgn526, 12-08-2005 16:21:58  
Steve, where can you buy the hydraulic pump?



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Greg Ballantyne

12-08-2005 18:44:13




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 Re: '51 AC-B 3-point conversion in reply to cgn526, 12-08-2005 16:21:58  
I made one for my 49 B, I can send you a picture. If you're interested I can explain what I did also. My B was set up for a corn planter, that makes it a little different on the lift from a lot of them.



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steve(ill)

12-08-2005 18:09:42




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 Re: '51 AC-B 3-point conversion in reply to cgn526, 12-08-2005 16:21:58  
you can get a factory hydraulic pump that fits into the hosuing on the right side of the pto housing and runs off the PTO shaft inside. it is a low volumn, but 3200 psi system. it iwll be enough flow to run the lift.--- you can buy several brands of lifts from this site or other guys on the site. they cost $300-500 or you can build your own if you have the talent or tools. Most of the systems mount to the drawbar to simplify their installation.

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