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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum

CA steers hard, why?

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XFarmer Brown

11-15-2005 15:18:40

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I have a '52 CA with wide front that steers very hard. It steers harder than my D14 or WD45 all of which have wide fronts. Can anyone tell me what is the most common cause for this or how to diagnose what the problem is ? I don't know how long it has been this way. My cousin owned it for several years and traded it in on a new tractor to get power steering as she has a bum shoulder.
It is in very good condition otherwise. There is only a small amount of play in the steering gears, so I don't think that anything is likely "worn out" other than maybe a bushing or two. It does have a Continental belly mower under it which adds some weight to the front. It takes both arms to turn it.

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Tom Boyden

11-16-2005 17:58:27

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to XFarmer Brown, 11-15-2005 15:18:40

The steering box in our B isn't in the best of condition. I don't remember why, but we have a grease fitting in it and in the bearing area where the output shaft comes out and each time we grease the tractor we grease the steering box. I know the bearings weren't the best, mabye we did it to keep the bearings full of grease at all times. It has worked this way for years.

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BCnT

11-16-2005 19:10:17

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to Tom Boyden, 11-16-2005 17:58:27

most steering boxes had gear oil in them from factory...its alot easier to install grease zerks than replace seals when they start leaking and it works just the same.

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XFarmer Brown

11-17-2005 08:10:22

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to BCnT, 11-16-2005 19:10:17

Most steering gears have oil, but apparently not these. The shop manual says pack bearings with grease before assembly.

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Kent of SW MO

11-16-2005 05:46:08

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to XFarmer Brown, 11-15-2005 15:18:40

The bearings could be bad in the steering box.

Kent

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BCnT

11-15-2005 23:53:05

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to XFarmer Brown, 11-15-2005 15:18:40

i'd say as simple as low air pressure in tires to lack of lubrication...steering will be stiff when youre not moving but once ya get going shouldnt be that difficult unless its got a front end loader on it w/o power steering.

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shoe

11-15-2005 20:18:29

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to XFarmer Brown, 11-15-2005 15:18:40

I have a allis B pretty much the same, it steers
hard it's just the way it is. they have no power
steering, that's just the way they are.

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chalmersbob

11-15-2005 18:54:48

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to XFarmer Brown, 11-15-2005 15:18:40

i found that the shaft that is attached to the arm next to the radiator to be a problem that caused hard steering on my c. also on my adj front b i found the tie rod ends were rusted solid. this also caused it to steer hard. bob

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Dick L

11-15-2005 18:11:46

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to XFarmer Brown, 11-15-2005 15:18:40

The only way you will really know is to unhook the drag link at one end or the other and then unhook the tie rods under the front. Move each the steering wheel then move the front arm back and forth. Jack up the front axle and take hold of the tires and move them in the spindles. I have had the steering boxes be dry and binding, I have had the spindles tight a Denny suggested, and I have had the shaft in the front get tight. I took pictures of one of the front arm shafts that bound up. I had to use a hone on the inner bushings to get it free.

third party image Link loading="auto" style="width:auto;height:auto">

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XFarmer Brown

11-16-2005 10:55:03

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to Dick L, 11-15-2005 18:11:46

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. I have isolated where the problem is. By jacking up the front and turning the steering wheel back and forth I found that there is a bad "tight spot" just left of center. It is hard to steer through this going either way. By wiggling the tires while in this tight area, I can see that everything wiggles freely except the steering gear under the gas tank. From the steering wheel end, it does not wiggle freely in this area either.
Sounds like you have had all of these gear boxes apart, so I will ask you: Any idea what might cause this or what to do about it ??

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Texas Denny

11-15-2005 17:16:48

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to XFarmer Brown, 11-15-2005 15:18:40

The only thing on the front end itself that will make it turn hard is the spindles. They have grease fittings on these spindles. The other thing is the bearings in the steering box under the gas tank. This gear box should have heavy weight oil in it. I'd start disconnecting things (such as the steering arm) to find out where the problem is. CA's do not steer hard if everything is right - you just have to find where the problem is - gearbox or spindles.

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XFarmer Brown

11-16-2005 10:58:56

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to Texas Denny, 11-15-2005 17:16:48

I agree Denny. CA's should not steer hard. I grew up on a C with a front mount cultivator and it steered easy even for a little kid. My gear boxes have grease zerks. Read my followup to DickL. Now I at least know where the problem is, even though I don't know what it is yet.

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Dick L

11-16-2005 13:27:57

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to XFarmer Brown, 11-16-2005 10:58:56

It could be bearings, it could be that the pauls, if it is a Ross steering gear, was sloppy and someone tried to take up the wear by tightening the stud behind the starter to tight. I could be the output shaft has started to bind up. If it is a Gemmer steering box it could be the same type of deal. The Gemmer has two adjustments on the teeth. One is the screw behind the starter and the other is a cam type stud on the output side of the box. The only real way to know for sure is to remove the steering gear and disassemble it. Which ever brand it is. There is no special tools required to repair them. You might have to order parts.
I rebuilt one a coupla three months ago and traded it and the time to put it on for two plows. Takes about two hours to remove every thing and put it back togather. If you have done it before that is. That one had rusted fast bolts holding the tool box onto the torque tube and I had it switched out, swaped out the cross over tie rod, and was ready to load the plows in less than two hours. Because they wanted to get some new bolts the tool box screws were not in and the gas tank and hood was not back on.

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XFarmer Brown

11-16-2005 15:42:28

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to Dick L, 11-16-2005 13:27:57

OK. The first thing I will try is loosening the adjustment screw behind the starter. I that doesn't work, then I will have to disassemble.

According to my shop manual, there is the only the one adjustment screw and inside it should be a worm gear and a sector with 2 pins on it rather than 2 gears.

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Dick L

11-16-2005 19:53:53

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to XFarmer Brown, 11-16-2005 15:42:28

That is most likely what you have. There is a chanch that you could have a Gemmer with these parts.

third party image Link loading="auto" style="width:auto;height:auto">">Link

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XFarmer Brown

11-17-2005 08:05:34

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Re: CA steers hard, why? in reply to Dick L, 11-16-2005 19:53:53

Thanks for the nice ID photos.
If I do indeed have the Ross, it would make sense that the one pin for turning left could fit different than the other pin for turning right or that each one fits OK by itself but they don't fit well together at the same time.

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