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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversion

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keith schoonove

11-04-2005 18:31:00




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What special info do I need to know to convert a wd45 from 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative ground.




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John T

11-05-2005 09:03:58




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 Re: 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversi in reply to keith schoonover, 11-04-2005 18:31:00  
Keith, a tractor that size ought to start fine at 6 volts if you have a good heavy rated battery and 00 Gauge Battery n Starter n Ground cales, but if you insist on converting to 12 volts, I like the GM 10SI 3 wire Negative ground alternators cuz they are cheap n very available. Or you can go with a One Wire Alternator, they cost more but are easier to wire. Or else just stay with the Generator system by using a 12 volt Generator (or have yours rebuilt to 12) and a 12 volt Voltage Regulator. And a 12 volt battery wired Negative ground, of course. If you go with an alternator rated a lot more then 20 amps (which almost all are) I usually run new 10 gauge wire from the alternator up to the ammeter and from the ammeter to the battery or starter post.

If you go that route you gotta:

1) Change over to Negative ground if youre not there already, which invloves swapping the ammeter leads if it has one (so it dont read bass ackwatds) and swapping the coil polarity. If you use a Generator, simply Polarize it cuz they can work at EITHER Pos or Neg ground, just be sure the VR is suitable for your ground, most are.

2) If you wanna use the old 6 volt coil you gotta add a series voltage dropping (12 to 6) Ballast Resistor ahead of the coil after the switch, or else just get a full 12 volt rated coil. The Ballast resistors are around 1.5 to 1.85 ohms and 30 watts or so power rated.

3) Change light bulbs n lights to 12 volts.

John T, retired electrical engineer in Indiana

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BigChucknTexas

11-04-2005 22:01:53




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 Re: 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversi in reply to keith schoonover, 11-04-2005 18:31:00  
like cbp said...nuthin to it...switch polarity on coil and ammeter if it has one...you may have to change ammeters...parts houses used to sell a resistor so you didnt have to change lights...it'll have to be a real parts house that has em.



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cbp

11-05-2005 05:12:43




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 Re: 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversi in reply to BigChucknTexas, 11-04-2005 22:01:53  
Oops, you just reminded me Chuck, Ballast resistor!!! My memory really gets dim quick ;-). Coils are cheap though.



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BCnT

11-05-2005 08:52:35




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 Re: 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversi in reply to cbp, 11-05-2005 05:12:43  
yeah,i forgot it too...guess i need to quit posting when i'm plum wore out actually i meant a voltage reducer but resistor came out...basically same thing but the reducer handles more amperage.



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cbp

11-06-2005 06:12:51




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 Re: 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversi in reply to BCnT, 11-05-2005 08:52:35  
In the category of interesting trivia, I had this crazy idea that since I loved old tractors so much, I should be driving a car of the same vintage and bought a 53 Chevy four door. As i spent (way too much) time learning about it to get it and keep it going, I learned that even into the 60s, a lot of 12 volt negative ground systems still used the coils from the 6 volt systems with a resistor... right from the factory. I suppose it was simple production issues since so many 6 volt systems were out there and manufacturing processes were geared to it.

I've done several the tractor 12 to 6, negative to positive conversions to put them back to original. That always required replacing the battery leads with heavier ones since the originals would be long gone and the little 12 volt auto cables people would use, weren't intended for that amperage. I think in some cases, 6 volt systems don't perform just for that reason, someone will have replaced the cables with what's sitting on the auto parts store shelf somewhere in the tractors history.

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Rick from Berne

11-12-2005 07:18:58




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 Re: 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversi in reply to cbp, 11-06-2005 06:12:51  
If I remember my basic electric, a 6v system requires TWICE the amperage to operate a starter to get the same cranking power as a 12v system, so the cables for 6v are heavier than for 12v.



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Rick from Berne

11-12-2005 07:17:11




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 Re: 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversi in reply to cbp, 11-06-2005 06:12:51  
Chrysler products used a 6 volt coil with a resistor into the 70s and maybe later. They had a circuit that bypassed the resistor for starting, that produced a hotter spark and switched it back in for running.
Trouble shooting was a bear if you forgot to check the resistor. A give-away was when the motor would start, but die as soon as you released the starter switch. Luckily, it was possible to jump it out (with a wire from one end to the other) and run the engine to get home if it was 'open.'

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cbp

11-04-2005 20:45:50




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 Re: 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversi in reply to keith schoonover, 11-04-2005 18:31:00  
That isn't too difficult. There are a couple of articles on it in the articles section. Here was the first one I noticed Link
www.ytmag.com/articles/artint195.htm

Some>Link of the other articles not specifically about converting but on generators may have had some info on that too.

If I remember (I did a couple many years back), the generator is all that has to actually be replaced since the wiring is overkill for 12 volt. The starter can get too hot from excessive cranking but if it starts normally, that shouldn't be a problem. Now if you have the lights, there is more to deal with there.

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MikeinKy

11-05-2005 10:12:08




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 Re: 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt negative conversi in reply to cbp, 11-04-2005 20:45:50  
If you want it to look original, don't put an alternator on it. Find a good automotive electrical shop and have them change the fields in the generator to 12V. Get a 12V coil with a built in resistor, 12V regulator, reverse the wires on the amp guage, and you should be ready to go, after you polarize the regulator so it knows which way is ground. A good shop might do that for you. I have done several of my own.

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