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Technical Diesel HP/Performance question

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CAL (KS)

09-15-2005 11:39:13




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With the way fuel prices have been going i have been thinking about ways to boost diesel engine economy. Specifically through intercooling or aftercooling turbocharged engines. What im looking for is if anyone can give me a ballpark figure as to HP/fuel economy gains on an engine without any cooling treatment on intake air changed to inter/aftercooling. obvoiusly every engine is different but what % gains can be attributed to intake charge cooling. example 5-10%
This could apply to any diesel engine but specifically im interested in applying this to an A-C 8550 4Wd. These tractors have the same engine as the D21A dozer and 460 motor scrapers but wiht a slightly smaller stroke coming out to 731 CU instead of 844 like the latter. These engines are twin Turbo'd but lack any inter/aftercooling.
I think an intercooler of of a D21 or a 460 scraper may fit or maby an aftercooler off of a semi tractor.
Is it worth it? any ideas... thanx

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Butch(OH)

09-16-2005 06:41:58




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 Re: Technical Diesel HP/Performance question in reply to CAL (KS), 09-15-2005 11:39:13  
Your topic interested me too. Below is a link to google search, type in diesel intercooling or something similar for more info than you can read in a few days. I spent a short time looking over some material and it would appear that that the advatages of intercooling will vary greatly depending on the application. I could find no referance to economy gains which leads me to belive that it would be minimal. Power gains will depend on boost levels, more boost, more to gain from intercooling. Some tractor turbos supply little boost over atmospheric and thus there would be little gain from intercooling. An interesting subject, maybe some of the high IQ types will chime in with some real info.

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DON DITTMAR

09-16-2005 05:10:35




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 Re: Technical Diesel HP/Performance question in reply to CAL (KS), 09-15-2005 11:39:13  
YOUR COMMENTS ARE INTERESTING. I DO NOT KNOW AN EXACT FIGURE, AND THIS IS GOING TO VARY PER ENGINE, BUT YOU WILL NOTICE A DIFFERENCE WITH AFTERCOOLING. I DO BELIEVE THE 8550 WAS POWERED BY A TRIPLE NICKEL(555) CUMMINS AND IF THERE WAS ANY WAY TO AFTERCOOL IT, I WOULD DO IT, THOUGH I DONT THINK AN AFTERCOOLER FROM A SEMI WOULD NOT FIT. BY COOLING THE AIR AND MAKING IT MORE DENSE(MOLECULES CLOSER TOGETHER), YOU CAN CRAM MORE AIR INTO THE CYLINDER ON EACH INTAKE STROKE. MORE AIR=MORE FUEL= MORE HORSEPOWER. EVEN THOUGH YOU WOULD BE FEEDING THE ENGINE MORE FUEL , YOU WOULD BE WORKING THE ENGINE LESS, AND COULD EVEN PULL THE SAME IMPLEMENT IN 1 GEAR HIGHER. THAT IS THE KEY TO IT ALL. IF YOU CAN TAKE A TRACTOR, MODIFY IT TO MAKE MORE HORSEPOWER, AND PULL THE SAME IMPLEMENT 1 GEAR HIGHER, YOU WILL BE OK. BUT IF YOU TAKE THE SAME TRACTOR, MODIFY IT, WEIGHT IT, AND PULL A LARGER IMPLEMENT, YOU WILL RUN INTO DRIETRAIN PROBLEMS. I HOPE MY RAMBLINGS MAKE SENSE AND HELP

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CAL (KS)

09-16-2005 20:15:59




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 Re: Technical Diesel HP/Performance question in reply to DON DITTMAR, 09-16-2005 05:10:35  
the 8550 used the same engine as the 4W305. 6120 series 5.25x5.625. HD21's and the 460 motor scraper used the 6138 series 5.25x6.5 according to my A-C literature. as far as i can tell the only difference is the stroke.

I have heard of people doing away with the twin turbo setup on these tractors and going to 1 large turbo like on over the road semi trucks for more power. I assume the boost is greater. but i havnt heard of any inter/after cooling done. There were not many of these made less than 3000 i believe. My father and i are die hard A-C fans and we have 2.

both of you make good points.
even a 10% increase would mean 30Hp.

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Don Dittmar

09-19-2005 04:32:03




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 Re: Technical Diesel HP/Performance question in reply to CAL (KS), 09-16-2005 20:15:59  
When you switch from twin to single turbo, you are actually losing boost, but the advatge is that there is only one turbo to fail. The advantage of twin turbos in series is that neither one is spinning as fast nor working hard, so that saves on wear....plus you are able to create more boost psi. One turbo boost the air a liitle and pushes it to the second, which boosts it even more, then it goes to the intake. Twin turbos will create a little more heat as they compress the air more, so if it is twin turbos i would recommend intercooling

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CAL (KS)

09-16-2005 20:20:36




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 Re: Technical Diesel HP/Performance question in reply to CAL (KS), 09-16-2005 20:15:59  
pardon my error... any D21 should read HD21



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