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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum

surge spring

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Ken/Wa

08-21-2005 14:44:59

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I have a 1952 AC B that has been surging under load. The tractor is 4 hours away, and the renter has been dealing with it. I told him to adjust the mixture, to make it a little richer. I searched the archives and found the picture of the surge spring that Rod posted. (your pictures are great Rod). I read where AC left the springs off in later years. I do not ever remember seeing this spring on mine. I have had it about 10 years, and it worked without a spring. I have not heard back yet on the adjustment of the mixture yet. Do I need this spring on a 1952 B?

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jeffalex2

08-22-2005 04:21:16

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Re: surge spring in reply to Ken/Wa, 08-21-2005 14:44:59

My 1950 B has a spring on it...and surges if I take it off. The mixture screw on a B adjusts idle mixture only. Once the throttle is opened a couple of notches, the mixture is preset. The spring maintains a very slight pressure against the throttle linkage towards the open position. This is because the carbs are very sensitive and just the slop in old linkage will make them surge alittle. It's more likely it's got alittle gunk in the carb jet, or, the speed control linkage from the gov to the steering post is loose. Also, make sure that the little oil tube to the top of the gov is not clogged. Without lube, the gov will act really weird.

Best Wishes...Love The "Little Allis's"

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Rod (NH)

08-21-2005 21:01:10

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Re: surge spring in reply to Ken/Wa, 08-21-2005 14:44:59

Ken,

According to my reading of the parts book, all Bs and Cs had that spring. Bs that had engines with ser BE-51353 and later had a different part number for it - but all still had it. There is nothing in the parts book to indicate that the spring was left off later Bs.

Rod

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Ken/Wa

08-21-2005 23:45:29

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Re: surge spring in reply to Rod (NH), 08-21-2005 21:01:10

My engine serial number is CE 161144 PA. My tractor serial number is 119553. I wonder if that makes a difference? I will call sandy Lake tomorrow, and see if my year had one, and if they have one. It has run 10 years for me without one, but will put one on if it is supposed to have one. I think the mixture screw needs to be turned in, but have not heard from my renter. At least I know where it goes, thanks to your picture.

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Rod (NH)

08-22-2005 09:07:03

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Re: surge spring in reply to Ken/Wa, 08-21-2005 23:45:29

Here's the page from the manual that covers your tractor serial number:
Click on the thumbnail to bring up a readable version.

That spring is shown upside down, but it's there. AC must have thought it was desirable since they apparently used it for the entire life of the B. Whether it's actually needed is another matter. If you have the hole in the linkage for it, it probably was there at one time. Perhaps there are remnants of an old one on the manifold stud, dangling out of normal sight.

Jeffalex2 is correct on the carburetor jetting. There was only one model of Zenith carb (219430) used on the B/C that had an adjustable main jet - that was for an alcohol low octane version. All the others had a fixed orifice and therefore no adjustment needle for the high speed mixture. That's what the parts book indicates for original tractors. Of course if yours was field-modified over the years, all bets are off and anything is possible. I understand the Zenith can be retrofitted with an adjustable main jet but I have never found that to be needed since mine runs fine with the stock fixed version.

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Ken/Wa

08-22-2005 17:13:33

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Re: surge spring in reply to Rod (NH), 08-22-2005 09:07:03

Thanks for the picture. My IT service book has that picture, but not with the part numbers. I do not know about the hole on the rod, have not heard back. I have had the manifold off many times, and never seen any remnants, but that does not mean there was not one on there once. As far as the carb, I have a Marvel-Schebler, probably about the same though. Sounds like the surge spring may fix the problem.

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steve(ill)

08-21-2005 19:11:11

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Re: surge spring in reply to Ken/Wa, 08-21-2005 14:44:59

neither of mine B, have a spring. got a hole in the float of one last week, now it is overflowing on occasion, also starting to surge. if everything is set perfect you dont need a spring, but most of the motors have one to keep the surging down. does the float stick or do you have overflow? also turn the air screw all the way in to seat, then back on 1 turn. move to 2 turns if needed- test results.

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Ken/Wa

08-21-2005 19:29:40

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Re: surge spring in reply to steve(ill), 08-21-2005 19:11:11

AS far as I know, the float does not stick. The tractor is 4 hours away, so emailed the renter to check that, and adjust carb. It is probably not getting enough fuel. I have rebuilt it before, and it ran great without a spring.

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