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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraulic s

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Tired of waitin

08-13-2005 16:41:58




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A 1970, Allis-Chalmers backhoe got (sort of) abandoned out here, along with the job it's owner had already gotten pre-paid to do. After over 2 years of waiting (& the ponds I'd paid for going from @5 to 7 feet deep to @2 to 4 feet deep, even with my doing the best I could to move the dirt piles away w/a shovel!), I finally decided to just get this beast to running on my own, get a friend to show me how to run it, and try to AT LEAST back drag the dirt piles myself. With luck, I might even be able to dredge some of the mud out of the ponds. I'm having trouble getting the backhoe boom (left, inside lever) to work about 90% of the time. When it does, it takes pulling it a VERY long time before it'll do anything. The only thing it does fast is to go back down (more slowly if I don't push the lever, though...) Left and right lags badly; as do both outriggers. The dozer bucket (on the front) seems to work just fine; and, the outside arm of the backhoe and the bucket control seems to work pretty well; so, it would seem odd if it were the hydraulic pump. I've checked the 3 hydraulic dip sticks I could find (one looked more like gear oil, though); and, those levels looked good. I know I have some leaks, though; so, I'm not quite sure why they don't seem to be going down. Perhaps I'm overlooking another dipstick? Also, I was sold a bucket of AW-32 ("non-foaming") and a bottle of Lucus seal restorer at O'Reily's. Could this be the problem? If the filter was clogged, would the dozer end and the rest still work? I don't know if it's a clue or not; but, when I pull the left, inside lever back (to raise the b/h boom, the engine doesn't trottle up on its own, like it does with the other controls. If something is sticking in the controls, is this something which would be pretty easy to fix myself? (I'm sort of a "jack of all trades," who will tackle just about anything; but, I'd never even been on a running backhoe until last Sunday and never had a reason to mess with any hydraulics before; so, I'm going to "pick" lots of brains. ;) I have free long distance, in case anyone has any ideas but needs more info. just e-mail me your number privately, along with good/bad times to call; and, I can post a synopsis of what we figured out later, to save you time.

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Tramway Guy

08-13-2005 18:23:00




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to Tired of waiting, 08-13-2005 16:41:58  
If the backhoe boom does what you say, then most likely the piston seals are shot on that cylinder. The leakage is internal and no fluid loss results because the fluid just goes past the piston to the other side. Will cause slow response, and the boom will settle with the lever in the neutral position. It can be repaired by most any hydraulic cylinder shop.

As far as lcation for the hydraulic reservoir, it is possible that the loader frame itself is used for a tank; it is like that on other makes. I am not familiar with AC backhoes, but have run other brands.

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Tired of waiting

08-13-2005 23:24:28




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to Tramway Guy, 08-13-2005 18:23:00  
Thank you Tramway Guy. :) This certainly sounds as though it could be the problem. Does it take any special equipment to change the piston seals? Might it be something I could do myself? Do you think I might be able to get such seals at a bearing and seal distributor, rather than having to pay a premium price from a dealer?



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Tramway Guy

08-14-2005 06:02:21




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to Tired of waiting, 08-13-2005 23:24:28  
You might be able to do it yourself. Depends on how the rod end cap comes off. Once that is off, it should be pretty straightforward. Try a dealer first for the seals. There are usually several parts involved; O'-rings, teflon rings, wear rings, etc. Bearing and seal distributor would not be a typical source, but a hydraulic cylinder shop might be.



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Tired of waiting

08-14-2005 10:21:08




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to Tramway Guy, 08-14-2005 06:02:21  
Thank you. :) That might explain the hissing and gurgling sounds coming from inside the control box when I turn it off, as well...



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SteveinCT

08-15-2005 05:10:05




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to Tired of waiting, 08-14-2005 10:21:08  
Tired, depending on your mechanical abilities, rebuilding the cylinder isn't impossible. I have an I-60 Allis that I rebuilt several of the cylinders on with no prior experience. It's dirty work and you need a strong back, cuz those things are HEAVY. I don't know where you are, but there is a great industrial parts dealer in Vermont who knows his Allis stuff. If you can find a good local hydraulics place, they can match up a lot of your old stuff to new replacement parts for 1/2 of the dealer price. Send me an e-mail if you want some help. Steve

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Tramway Guy

08-15-2005 11:43:51




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to SteveinCT, 08-15-2005 05:10:05  
What you have described sounds like the control valve stack. The part that you need to rebuild is the 'cylnder' also know as 'ram' which is out on the boom itself. It is probably four to 6 feet long, and perhaps 4 to 8 inches in diameter; with hoses piped to it. It has a chrome piston rod maybe 2 or 3 inches in diameter. The seals are inside the cylinder, installed on a piston fastened to the rod. The piston moves back and forth by pressure applied to it; when the seals are bad on the piston, they will let hydraulic fluid pass by the piston and you will lose efficiency big time.

At least, that is what it sounds like. I think that you ought to remove the cylinder and take it to a repair shop.

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Tired of waiting

08-16-2005 02:10:05




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to Tramway Guy, 08-15-2005 11:43:51  
I looked at that cylinder this evening; and, aside from the end cap (of the "female" section") being threaded, I'm not really seeing how it detachs. I plan to look more closely when I have better light. If I have to take that loose, it looks like it's going to be a real bear even getting in to unscrew the hoses. They're pretty "deep" up in there...



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Tired of waiting

08-15-2005 09:44:47




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to SteveinCT, 08-15-2005 05:10:05  
Thank you, SteveinCT. I'll go ahead and post this, for now; so, anyone with similar questions in the future will know. If you don't make it back over, I'll e-mail you directly. :)

I'm in Okla.; so, shipping to Vermont would probably be cost prohibative. I'm not a 100% sure that we're talking about the same part, though. I just went out and measured it; and, what I'm thinking is the problem measures about 8 inches tall, about 12 inches wide, and about 3 to 4 inches from front to back. There are a couple of rows of hydraulic lines going into/coming out of it. The control levers move little "pistons" coming out of the top of it. It's pretty gunked up; but, some parts cleaner spray would take care of that. It doesn't look as though it would be all that heavy, though; hence, my wondering if were talking about the same part. (I don't want to start yanking things loose until I'm pretty sure what I'm dealing with and that I can get it back together again.) Perhaps it's just that a I-60 model has a lot larger unit than a D-15 / 615 model? How much did the parts cost for yours? Did you need any special tools to change them? Were any of them "pressed fit"?

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SteveinCT

08-15-2005 13:22:17




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to Tired of waiting, 08-15-2005 09:44:47  
Mr. Tired, I understand now. The set of levers that are in front of you when you are sitting in the backhoe's seat. Tram and I are talking about the cylinders that control the arms on the hoe. It could be either the levers(controls), the cylinders(like Tram said) or both together that are causing your problem. If you have the stuff, the thing to do is attach a pressure gauge to the line that goes into the cylinder that is having the problem. If you have no pressure, then it is the levers. Otherwise, it's like Tram said, the cylinder's internal seals are letting the fluid leak from one side to another, which will cause the problem. But remember that hydraulic fluid is under extreme pressures when the machine is running, or if, for instance, there is a force acting on the hoe, like a large boulder in the bucket, in the air. You would need to be very careful. Still, it's do-able. It sounds scarier and more complicated than it really is. Find the articles on this site under Articles on hydraulics, a great start for info. Use me if you want. It's a good machine, even if parts are hard to come by. The 615 is the newer version of the I-60, which was also built on the D-15. Steve

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Tired of waiting

08-16-2005 02:00:01




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 Re: Need info on Allis-Chalmers D-15? 615? hydraul in reply to SteveinCT, 08-15-2005 13:22:17  
Thank you for your clarification.

I don't have any sort of a pressure guage; and, can't really buy much to do this; since, I'm getting by on a disability income of just $521/mo. (Getting the starter fixed about wiped out the budget for this month...) That's why I'm hoping that there's some way to "do it on the cheap." Even though I "got stiffed" on this project, I don't want to get in so deeply that I have to file a mechanic's lien on it to recoup my losses. I'd rather just finishing things up myself; then, call him to come get it in better shape than he left it... If I were to watch for a pressure guage at a pawn shop, etc. what type(s) would work? What would be about the minimum p.s.i. guage do you think would work? If I were to just figure out a way to jack the backhoe boom up enough to get the chains on it, I could at least use the dozer bucket to backdrag the other piles. Any idea how best I could safely do that? I don't think that a come-along would get it; but, that boom surely doesn't weigh anywhere near the capacity of a car jack; so, I'm thinking of alternating two of them. That way, I could at least be using the dozer end while I'm researching how to fix it, coming up with the money for parts, etc.

I'm still reading the articles you recommended; and, what I've read so far do seem to be pretty informative for hydraulic novices such as myself. :)

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