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Engines with straight pipe

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Guyzoo

04-05-2005 21:42:30




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Hi, I have just a little question for you today.
My question is: If you put a straight pipe on an engine, did it will loose power. 2 of my friends are telling me that it will increase hp but I don't think so that's why I am asking you this. THANKS FOR YOUR OPINION




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T.J.-N.J.

04-10-2005 18:19:06




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
Are you playing or working , most competition pullers only run a hundred or so feet under load and get parked not really long enough to hurt the valves, working is another story, I prefer a muffler, just because I am around machinery all day long and don't want to hear it when I am running my own stuff, Plus we have lots of little ones on the farm, my kids plus nieces and nephews and I think the safety factor of being able to hear them yelling when they manage to escape from their mothers is more important than a cool sounding rig.

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Doug in OR

04-07-2005 21:13:17




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
The muffler in the old WD I used when I was a kid was essentially a straight pipe. The pipe had holes which allowed to 'pop' to be absorbed in the larger chamber. Now if you ask me, a real straight pipe just can't add any more horsepower from that. Unless you are reving the engine way above factory specs, I can't see how a straight pipe would give you even one more HP.

Wait a couple years, you'll see what all that noise does to your hearing as you put the years on. Been there, done that. The loss is irreversible.

Huh? Say again...

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TractorMike

04-07-2005 15:25:06




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
I personally think that engines run better with a straight pipe. They seem to have a better throttle response and a little more power. I'm in the middle of putting a straight pipe on my Ford 4000 diesel, Sure sounds nice! TractorMike



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Mark - IN.

04-06-2005 19:48:48




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
On gas engines, straight pipes can cause a loss in horse power, actually need to dyno to find the HP curve.

Things that straight pipes cause, as previously mentioned are a lean burn, which leads to a richening of the fuel system to compensate. Bluing of straight pipes is more likely than not over richening of the fuel and actually continuing to burn into the pipe. Gold on a gas is good, blue aint bad (rich), pink is bad (lean). If someone wrapped an inch or so of bare copper wire around the pipes near the head, will dissipate much of any heat that discolors the pipe, so won't have a color to go by. Running lean wreaks havoc on engines. Straight pipes with no back pressure have a tendency to cause a cooler backside of the valve and guide, which is good for the stem and guide, not good for the valve when the face is considerably hotter than the backside for long periods of time. Mufflers too can be both good and bad. They do cause some restriction (back pressure) which both robs and increases HP, depending on the design. Some of those "louvers" are so large that they act like cheese graters and cause so much turbulance that they maximize back pressure and restrict exhaust, causing exhaust to linger inside of the cylinder and combustion chamber, contaminating the fuel/air mixture of the intake stroke. Ever pulled an intake manifold and found exhaust soot in the runners? But many an engine has been dyno'd and shown a loss of HP and torque after went straight piped too.

If you're running a diesel, or a turbo, big and unrestrictive is good. Put in the ear plugs and let it fly.

Those puller guys or race car guys do a lot of maintenance that most don't have the time or will to do.

By the way, gas or diesel? Guessing has no turbo. You didn't say.

Mark

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Texas Denny

04-06-2005 08:47:19




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
I've read all the responses so far. I can't remember which gentleman said it. He contended there wasn't much restriction with the muffler because it is essentially straight through anyway. The small louvers in the muffler do more to reduce noise than to restrict air flow. I'm certain that there are probably some mufflers that will rob a small amount of horsepower. But I believe that the primary reason you don't see mufflers on a lot of tractors in pulls is because the machine makes more noise that way and is more impressive to the fans. Does it make a significant difference. Probably not measureable in most cases.

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Jack B. Nimble

04-06-2005 08:19:25




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
Depends. Less back pressure creates more airflow which creates a leaner burn which creates power. The down side is , a lean burn creates heat and in extreme cases can burn valves or roast pistons. Simply removing the muffler on a stock engine would probably not make a noticable difference except in your mind(loud engine=more power) To really benifit from a straight pipe would require rejetting the carb so fuel delivery matched the air flow and possibly a timing change. I have seen some engines on a dyno that actually lose power without the back pressure that they were designed to operate with.

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Guyzoo

04-06-2005 07:34:11




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
Thanks for your info guys. So if I understand correctly, it will give more hp to the engine.
Is it the same with diesel engines and littles engines like snow blower engines.
Thanks again



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RichB

04-06-2005 07:03:58




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
If you fellas are familiar with the magazine Old Power Pride they did a test on this same topic,and I believe the straight pipe did produce more power,for more info go to the pulling forum and post a message for CASEPOWER he would be the man to ask,also the man behind OPP magazine,hope this helps, Rich



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txgrn

04-06-2005 06:41:39




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
I have been kicking this question around the green board for a couple of weeks now. Get both answers.

When I was younger, we'd put duals and low back pressure glass packs on our cars. They ran a lot better, accelerated faster and even made noise so our friends would look when we passed.

I know on a loop charged, 2 cycle engine (outboard motor) pulse timing and exhaust tuning, reflections and back pressure are necessary to get the loop to work.

Tractors aren't anything like that.

You figure it out. I am sitting tight for the time being (keeping my OEM exhaust system). But this summer, if my tractor starts getting hot, you just might be able to hear me from where you are. Grin

Mark

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John (MO)

04-06-2005 05:19:38




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
Depends on the muffler, how much, but yes they rob a little HP.



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Sid

04-06-2005 05:18:37




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
I have heard it said that it does because it lessens the back pressure on an engine. Considering that many tractor mufflers are simply a straight pipe with a bunch of holes punched in it where it goes through the muffler shell. I doubt that any HP increase would be realized on those type mufflers.



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topsarg

04-06-2005 05:13:57




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Guyzoo, 04-05-2005 21:42:30  
In tractor pulling, you are looking for max HP. NO mufflers are run...that should tell us something..



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Sid

04-06-2005 05:20:46




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to topsarg, 04-06-2005 05:13:57  
In tractor pulling you are looking for more noise and show as much as HP. That tells me something too. I have heard this for years lets see some documented test results.



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Bob Hough

04-06-2005 05:43:48




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Sid, 04-06-2005 05:20:46  
All engines have a sweet spot on the exhaust length. Thats why they make tuned exhaust headers, rule of thumb is make the pipe long, run it on the dyno or something that will pull the engine, cut the pipe off where it quits turning blue. Okie



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jimd

04-06-2005 19:54:29




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 Re: Engines with straight pipe in reply to Bob Hough, 04-06-2005 05:43:48  
I'm with Bob. I used to help build tuned pipes for smaller applications. We would start long, then tach. Keep removing a small amount until RPM stopped increasing. Too short, and you run a risk of burning the valves.



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